So, Lustria. I think most people will agree that it is not a very exciting continent to play in right now. For me, the issue really stems from a lack of space - let me explain.
In WH2 Vortex map, Lustria was such an active area that the community named it Lustriabowl. It was this way because there were many LLs in the continent, but that wasn't the critical ingredient in my opinion. The critical part was that there was a massive war between Lizardmen and Skaven, with almost equal forces on both sides, which covered most of the continent. The LLs of other races acted like a wildcard entry, and usually ended up fighting one or the other side in this war. This is also why Tehenhauin felt so good back then, the war on Skaven meant something big!
Here's a comparison of the faction spread:
and what this looks like in the maps themselves:
What you will see here is how much of a challenge Skaven were providing to the Lizardmen in Vortex, while in IE they barely have a corner to themselves, and entirely depend on Skrolk's survival.
I think we need more Skaven factions on this continent to reignite the war, but we need to keep in mind that WH3 comes with new races, and especially Chaos needs to have a presence here as well (move Epidemius pls CA). Let's keep in mind also that due to being surrounded by ocean on all sides, Lustria doesn't usually get invaded by factions from other continents. So what we need is more space to place more factions, and here is my suggestion as to how we should achieve that:
This way we are only taking space from ocean, but without having to expand southwards or extending the map. I'm fully aware that making this much adjustment to the map will be a big task for CA, so I really am requesting this with a long term view - please add this change as a part of reworks at some point in the next year or two, so that we can have an engagingg experience in Lustriabowl again!
P.S.: I know that the community will have many opinions about this as well, so please fire away in the comments. The more we discuss this, the better quality feedback CA will be able to gather.
Updated 3 months ago.
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As a Lizardmen fan, I would be sceptical in adding more enemies into Lustria. But, I can accomodate some changes. Here is my proposal:
Lets go north to south:
1. New LL - Marco Colombo (New World Colonies): Comes with the DoW race and is tied into being an ally of Mazdamundi, primarily against Skeggi and Morathi to the north.
2. Move - The Marshal That Must Not Be Named -> Volcanic Islands: The Marshal That Must Not Be Named should be moved from the Creeping Jungle in order to break up the Cathay-Empire-Bretonnia human trifecta that all too easily can arise in northern Lustria. He is then moved to the Volcanic Islands, offering an island base with several options. Whether to go via Xlanhuapec directly for Itza, attack Luthor Harkon and springboard from there, or to advance into Skaven territory.
3. New LL - Golgfag Maneater: In place of the former, comes Golgfag Maneater. He is a neutral that can be a friend or foe to anybody.
4. Province Redesign and New LL - Tetto'eko: This would depend on how the situation develops in the Far East. If Ku'Gath isn't moved from the Dragon Isles and Nakai takes up residence in the Lost City of the Old Ones, then Tetto'eko should be placed at home, to provide reinforcements to the Lizardmen at home and to not make Alberic's early campaign a cakewalk. Provinces would have to be redesigned so that Tlaxtlan ends up in its own province seperate from Alberic.
5. Province Redesign and New LL - Thanquol: Skaven reinforcements comes with Thanquol, who could lorefully join Skrolk in the fight for Lustria, starting from Quetza. Slight redesign of Gwangee Valley and he'd be squeezed in between Tetto'eko and Gor-Rok, or Gor-Rok would be squeezed between Thanquol and Skrolk.
I am open to other additions as well.
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Hope any bowl will be spread out to make game less crammed and boring - add life to deadzone of chaos wastes and ind-kuresh territories instead of cramming aall in several points
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We don't NEED the Lustria Bowl anymore. We have the Southlands Rumble now.
I'd say in Southlands fun is only to be had around the desert rigght now. Everything below Settra is not very engaging - I recently played a Volkmar campaign and after killing Mannfred I'm surrounded by allies, which is not ideal. The closest natural enemies were Kairos and Arkhan.
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Hope any bowl will be spread out to make game less crammed and boring - add life to deadzone of chaos wastes and ind-kuresh territories instead of cramming aall in several points
They should definitely get rid of that floating mountain near Tamurkhan's start at least!
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As a Lizardmen fan, I would be sceptical in adding more enemies into Lustria. But, I can accomodate some changes. Here is my proposal:
Lets go north to south:
1. New LL - Marco Colombo (New World Colonies): Comes with the DoW race and is tied into being an ally of Mazdamundi, primarily against Skeggi and Morathi to the north.
2. Move - The Marshal That Must Not Be Named -> Volcanic Islands: The Marshal That Must Not Be Named should be moved from the Creeping Jungle in order to break up the Cathay-Empire-Bretonnia human trifecta that all too easily can arise in northern Lustria. He is then moved to the Volcanic Islands, offering an island base with several options. Whether to go via Xlanhuapec directly for Itza, attack Luthor Harkon and springboard from there, or to advance into Skaven territory.
3. New LL - Golgfag Maneater: In place of the former, comes Golgfag Maneater. He is a neutral that can be a friend or foe to anybody.
4. Province Redesign and New LL - Tetto'eko: This would depend on how the situation develops in the Far East. If Ku'Gath isn't moved from the Dragon Isles and Nakai takes up residence in the Lost City of the Old Ones, then Tetto'eko should be placed at home, to provide reinforcements to the Lizardmen at home and to not make Alberic's early campaign a cakewalk. Provinces would have to be redesigned so that Tlaxtlan ends up in its own province seperate from Alberic.
5. Province Redesign and New LL - Thanquol: Skaven reinforcements comes with Thanquol, who could lorefully join Skrolk in the fight for Lustria, starting from Quetza. Slight redesign of Gwangee Valley and he'd be squeezed in between Tetto'eko and Gor-Rok, or Gor-Rok would be squeezed between Thanquol and Skrolk.
I am open to other additions as well.
I'm not sure about Ogres in Lustria tbh, but the rest seems fine. I still think having more minor factions around will help in setting this up nicely, so we do need that extra space I mentioned in the OP.
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I don't care much for the so-called Lustriabowl, but I do agree that the Lustria map needs some kind of expansion, especially in the lower left corner of Lustria. Multiple consecutive long strips of provinces are tedious and uninteresting in a way, and some map expansion is needed to increase gameplay.
Updated 3 months ago.
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Wood_Sprite#1284 wrote: I'd say in Southlands fun is only to be had around the desert rigght now. Everything below Settra is not very engaging - I recently played a Volkmar campaign and after killing Mannfred I'm surrounded by allies, which is not ideal. The closest natural enemies were Kairos and Arkhan.
Then don't play one of the order guys. You're not surrounded by allies then.
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Wood_Sprite#1284 wrote: I'd say in Southlands fun is only to be had around the desert rigght now. Everything below Settra is not very engaging - I recently played a Volkmar campaign and after killing Mannfred I'm surrounded by allies, which is not ideal. The closest natural enemies were Kairos and Arkhan.
Then don't play one of the order guys. You're not surrounded by allies then.
You know that is not a solution - I shouldn't play in Southlands, unless it's as Mannfred?
I hope they will at least move Wurrzag down in place of the greenskin faction there at least, that will allow for a more dynamic setting for everyone.
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Epidemius should have been placed in the Lustria. His current startpos sucks so much. He doesn't even have a landmark in the starting area, which is like the Nurgle portion of the Chaos Wastes.
Wood_Sprite#1284 wrote: I hope they will at least move Wurrzag down in place of the greenskin faction there at least, that will allow for a more dynamic setting for everyone.
The theater encompassing everything from the Border Princes to the Southern Wastes should contain at least one LL from each Race!
TK, LM and GS can have 2 because they actually live in those places.
Enforest#2212wrote: Epidemius should have been placed in the Lustria. His current startpos sucks so much. He doesn't even have a landmark in the starting area, which is like the Nurgle portion of the Chaos Wastes.
Epidemius, Skulltaker and Masque should all start in the Southern Wastes.
Updated 3 months ago.
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Lustria is awfully boring right now, it definitely needs more LLs, preferably evil ones as there's too much order with those damn warm bloods.
Well, if you RP Lizardmen, you'll have to kill those warm bloods (especially Yuan Bo) and send them back to their lands so I wouldn't say that LM lack ennemies there.
I agree it needs at least one demonic LL though, just to allow a reenacting of the Great War against chaos.
______
OP I am not sure what your problem is, your table clearly shows that there is more faction diversity than there was before ?
So we do have a Lustriabowl just not a Skavenbowl. And Lustria shouldn't be plagued by Skaven, they have been pushed back a long time ago.
It is a bit like asking for all Chaos Lords to be put right in the middle of the Empire.
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Lustria is awfully boring right now, it definitely needs more LLs, preferably evil ones as there's too much order with those damn warm bloods.
Well, if you RP Lizardmen, you'll have to kill those warm bloods (especially Yuan Bo) and send them back to their lands so I wouldn't say that LM lack ennemies there.
I agree it needs at least one demonic LL though, just to allow a reenacting of the Great War against chaos.
______
OP I am not sure what your problem is, your table clearly shows that there is more faction diversity than there was before ?
So we do have a Lustriabowl just not a Skavenbowl. And Lustria shouldn't be plagued by Skaven, they have been pushed back a long time ago.
It is a bit like asking for all Chaos Lords to be put right in the middle of the Empire.
Having Yuan Bo and Alberic while playing Wulfharf, which is all about fighting Lizardmen, makes his campaign a lot less interesting though.
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