The Great Bastion is one of the worst mechanic in the game. It's very basic and it's centered about fighting spawning artificial stacks, like it's mongol invasion in medieval 1.

Also map can and should be expanded there, as this has been said a lot of times.

People were more occupied with other problems (and other reworks), but Bastion ''mechanic'' is seriously very poor. It would be miles better if Eastern Steppes would be bigger, as right now it's Chaos Wastes and map abruptly ends.

It would be miles better if there was room for AI empires to grow and threaten Great Cathay naturally. So while you're expanding map, please don't neglect this part of the world CA.

I actually don't think the stacks spawning from off-map are a problem. After all, there really is no hope of any order faction being able to clean that place up, so the hordes presenting an unending threat is on point as otherwise why would people even bother with such a gigantic wall? I would actually argue that the hordes need to present a lot more of a threat because right now Cathay feels entirely too safe and secure. Lustria, the Empire and even Ulthuan have actually become major battlefields due to the presence of several major evil factions being present who can carve up the place up quickly if not stopped. Cathay lacks that presence as for now so having the northern hordes substitute for that isn't too bad of an exchange.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
After all, there really is no hope of any order faction being able to clean that place up

That really only applies to Daemons.  There's no real reason you can't scour Marauders and BM from the Wastes.

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:
That really only applies to Daemons.  There's no real reason you can't scour Marauders and BM from the Wastes.

Everyone who goes on an extended stay in the chaos wastes for a little marauder genocide will just become corrupted themselves and join the bad guys (especially with wanton slaughter being a sacrifice for Khorne, intentional or not) or worse, bring that corrupting back home.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:
That really only applies to Daemons.  There's no real reason you can't scour Marauders and BM from the Wastes.

Everyone who goes on an extended stay in the chaos wastes for a little marauder genocide will just become corrupted themselves and join the bad guys (especially with wanton slaughter being a sacrifice for Khorne, intentional or not) or worse, bring that corrupting back home.

Greenskins: 'Waves'

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WarbossAohd#6756 wrote:

Greenskins: 'Waves'

Greenskins are in fact not immune to chaos corruption and if the entire warband gets it at once their usual defense mechanism against it ("kill dose who ain't orky 'nuff") fails.

That's why Greenskins haven't populated that place even though you might think it would be paradise what with the opportunity to have never-ending scraps against never-ending hordes of daemons.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
Everyone who goes on an extended stay in the chaos wastes for a little marauder genocide will just become corrupted themselves and join the bad guys (especially with wanton slaughter being a sacrifice for Khorne, intentional or not) or worse, bring that corrupting back home.

Nah.  Just build a Sanctuary of Asuryan in every province you take and you'll be fine.

A barricade of light that holds back the void.

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Nah.  Just build a Sanctuary of Asuryan in every province you take and you'll be fine.

A barricade of light that holds back the void.

Chaos Gods >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prissy elf gods.

I did a mod that expands this because I thought there was a lot more design space available. I particularly think that having something where the mechanic actually gives a reward to the rest of the campaign, eg like earning veteran units, is what is needed, so it changes from just a mechanic that functions as a permanent army spawner, into something players want to engage with all the time in order to access those rewards.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
Chaos Gods >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>prissy elf gods.

Maybe so.  But the Chaos Gods ain't on this world.  They're a far far way away.

The Great Bastion should get significantly more difficult as you progress through the campaign and involve more races than Norsca. Also it should be available to any Cathay faction holding the Great Bastion, it's dumb that Yuan Bo doesn't have the mechanic even when you captured the Gates.

I think expanding the Steppes/Wastes and increasing damages from Chaos corruption would go a long way here to make the Bastion more relevant.

First you'd have many threats to fight off, second you'd struggle even more to take them down. IE expanded is a great example here.

In addition, the waves of marauders should be more dangerous and also include warriors and demons (and even greenskins) from time to time.

To compensate, I'd make it possible to completely prevent the respawning of invading armies based on some specific criteria (for instance: all bastion gates at max level + a ritual/final battle)

Finally, increasing the gate's level should grant a progressivee immunity against siege attrition (for at least 3 to 5 turns at max level).

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

I think expanding the Steppes/Wastes and increasing damages from Chaos corruption would go a long way here to make the Bastion more relevant.

First you'd have many threats to fight off, second you'd struggle even more to take them down. IE expanded is a great example here.

In addition, the waves of marauders should be more dangerous and also include warriors and demons (and even greenskins) from time to time.

To compensate, I'd make it possible to completely prevent the respawning of invading armies based on some specific criteria (for instance: all bastion gates at max level + a ritual/final battle)

Finally, increasing the gate's level should grant a progressivee immunity against siege attrition (for at least 3 to 5 turns at max level).

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

I think expanding the Steppes/Wastes and increasing damages from Chaos corruption would go a long way here to make the Bastion more relevant.

First you'd have many threats to fight off, second you'd struggle even more to take them down. IE expanded is a great example here.

In addition, the waves of marauders should be more dangerous and also include warriors and demons (and even greenskins) from time to time.

To compensate, I'd make it possible to completely prevent the respawning of invading armies based on some specific criteria (for instance: all bastion gates at max level + a ritual/final battle)

Finally, increasing the gate's level should grant a progressivee immunity against siege attrition (for at least 3 to 5 turns at max level).

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

Agreed. In general I think that Great Bastion could work like that:

1. Controlling its entirety -> some reward (like bonus to growth and public order as Cathayans are happy)

2. Maxing all it's gates -> bigger reward

3. Killing X armies at the gates/quest battle finale

Still very simple but way better already. Thing is, if there were real Steppes, that is, more provinces north of Bastion, it would be already much better, more organic and natural as threats just grow instead of tiresome stack spawning.

I'd also like to remind that it's just wrong that there are chaos wastes and steppes are shrunk like they are currently. BIG Steppes should turn into Chaos Wastes, map shouldn't be like a narrow corridor that ends so close to Bastion.

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

Disagree, the Bastion should never become a non-factor ever, regardless of what you do. You should always have to deal with attacks on it.

The lategame in this game is already totally boring. Making it even more boring with less threats to deal with is out of the question.

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

I think expanding the Steppes/Wastes and increasing damages from Chaos corruption would go a long way here to make the Bastion more relevant.

First you'd have many threats to fight off, second you'd struggle even more to take them down. IE expanded is a great example here.

In addition, the waves of marauders should be more dangerous and also include warriors and demons (and even greenskins) from time to time.

To compensate, I'd make it possible to completely prevent the respawning of invading armies based on some specific criteria (for instance: all bastion gates at max level + a ritual/final battle)

Finally, increasing the gate's level should grant a progressivee immunity against siege attrition (for at least 3 to 5 turns at max level).

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

Doesn't make much sense. The Great Bastion is always under attack in the lore, that's the whole point. You can't get rid of Chaos in the Wastes, that place is way too fucked up.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

Disagree, the Bastion should never become a non-factor ever, regardless of what you do. You should always have to deal with attacks on it.

The lategame in this game is already totally boring. Making it even more boring with less threats to deal with is out of the question.

so you want to keep the tedious nature of keeping a full stack in each gate, especially in multi-player, just for thematic reasons. If you never wanted to turn it off all you would have to do is not fight that final battle I was suggesting. Let's also not forget each army that you keep in the gates still increases your supply lines for all the rest of your armies.

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Neodeinos#5871 wrote:

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

I think expanding the Steppes/Wastes and increasing damages from Chaos corruption would go a long way here to make the Bastion more relevant.

First you'd have many threats to fight off, second you'd struggle even more to take them down. IE expanded is a great example here.

In addition, the waves of marauders should be more dangerous and also include warriors and demons (and even greenskins) from time to time.

To compensate, I'd make it possible to completely prevent the respawning of invading armies based on some specific criteria (for instance: all bastion gates at max level + a ritual/final battle)

Finally, increasing the gate's level should grant a progressivee immunity against siege attrition (for at least 3 to 5 turns at max level).

The one bastion building protects against siege attrition already but I do agree once you get all 3 gates to rank 5 you should unlock a special battle (which would be a siege defence of a gate) to turn off the mechanic for the rest of the campaign

Doesn't make much sense. The Great Bastion is always under attack in the lore, that's the whole point. You can't get rid of Chaos in the Wastes, that place is way too fucked up.

Maybe in lore not, but in game you certainly can. Wiping out chaos from the map and having the wastes as part of your empire but still having to deal with out of nowhere attacks on the bastion just feels wrong.

I don't think there should be mechanics based on assuming the player will never ocuppy certain settlements/wipe out certain factions, and if there is then it should stop/change once you do.

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:

so you want to keep the tedious nature of keeping a full stack in each gate, especially in multi-player, just for thematic reasons. If you never wanted to turn it off all you would have to do is not fight that final battle I was suggesting. Let's also not forget each army that you keep in the gates still increases your supply lines for all the rest of your armies.

Yes, because that's a reality of life in Warhammer, you are never going to get rid of Chaos ever, it's always coming and it'll never stop. The world is doomed. End of debate.

Why even erect this giant wall if you just have to win a single dinky battle to solve chaos forever and can basically tear it down again? Sounds about on par with End Times writing.