If this already exists then I apologize, but I figured it could be nice to have a single thread where all the desired changes for the dark elf faction is gathered. There's a lot to be said about the current state of the faction, but due to irl I am not able to compile all my thoughts right now, but I will start the thread with a simple wish:

Give the dark elf heroes some more distinct utilities on the battlefield, like the different engineer heroes or handmaidens of Alarielle. There's an attempt with Death Hags, though I find the Cauldron of Blood mount incredibly lacking and dull. I would prefer if their abilities were more impactful, if perhaps at the cost of only buffing Witch Elves / Sisters of Slaughter. The Assassin feels quite pointless nowadays. He's not very strong in combat and doesn't have much impact on the campaign map since the revamped slave system. Masters are decent fighters, but also have no utility besides that. As aspiring Dread lords, it would be nice if they had some buffing capabilities, or a further focus on martial prowess. A choice would be neat!

Also, I would like for the Dark Elves to get a bit of a bigger focus on magic. Their Sorceresses are supposed to be the equals to their High Elf counterparts, and among the best in the world. I'd love to see more evidence of this, though I'm not quite sure in what sense at the top of my head.

Anyway, I take my leave here and hope that whatever meager group of Dark Elf fans read these forums and are interested in adding their thoughts :D

​Dark Elves have 3 remaining TT characters. Those are Kouran (Malekith's loyal leader of the Black Guard) Shadowblade (The chief Khainate assassin) and Tullaris (The Captain of the Executioners and Khaines chosen)

Of those 3, Kouran is the least interesting, so it would depend if CA wanted a campaign around stealth or another Khaine one.

Lord options could either add the Black Ark Fleetmaster, or the Hag Queen, the latter are lore characters, but never were added to the TT

Hero options I would either upgrade the Draich Master (Executioner champion) so the DE have a generalist AP hero, or the Disciple of Khaine (which would most likely be a priest type character) from the Age of Reckoning game.

Units would need to use at least some lore units to complete a dlc. 

Aeskhaine (Elves driven mad by Khaine, could either be a chaff unit, or a glass cannon unit) 

Malithii (Ghosts the cult of Khaine use to guard their holdings) 

Spellthirster (another hydra variant that's weaker but almost immune to magic)

Statue of Khaine (A large animated construct)

Magma Dragon (these live in both the mountains of Naggarond, and the Darklands, so could go to either the DE or Chorfs, though unless I'm misremembering, I think the Chorfs just kill them if they become a problem, not enslave them)

Aneerah#2767 wrote:
Their Sorceresses are supposed to be the equals to their High Elf counterparts, and among the best in the world.

The Asur, broadly speaking, have no equals amongst other Elves in regards to matters of magic.

I wish for Tullaris DLC.  I wish for  Shadowblade and Kouran LHs. I wish for Black Ark Fleetmaster L. I wish for Statue of Khaine unit. I wish for other fun units. I wish for Watchtowers. I wish for other more flavourful mechanics. I wish for youthful, true to miniature, art, and lore Hellebron. I wish for other model updates. I wish for Dark Magic visual update, too.

''Young'' Hellebron would be good to have.

​

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:
I wish for Tullaris DLC.  I wish for  Shadowblade and Kouran LHs. I wish for Black Ark Fleetmaster L.

With no good Hero options for DEs, they could do the Khorne thing and have Khouran and Shadowblade both as LHs, instead of getting a generic Hero.

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

Statue of Khaine (A large animated construct)

I have no idea what that is, but sounds cool.

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

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Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

More magic for my delves please. Make Malekith an actual Witch King and sorcerers good at magic. 

Also, if CA are going through the End Times route, give us the Eternity King experience, with a combined Elf roster (units and LLs) for Malekith...that would be an absolute dream. I currently play a mod that allows me to force confed other elf races and it's amazing. Also, because I want the full ET experience, I have Incarnate traits for Tyrion, Malekith, Grimgor etc and I like that too, it expands the late game for IE, because all the traits are available on level 50 for all lords, so, because I don't even confed other factions until I build up forces, I can't use these traits and until I level them up it is pretty late in the game, which gives this smooth transition in power shift and ultimately an endgame for IE.

Dark Elves are definitely on the list with Lizardmen and High Elves for races which deserve an update to bump them back up into having top-tier mages.

I can understand why you might want Eternity King Malekith if you liked End Times, but for myself, I sincerely hope we don't get that kind of End Times lore influencing the game.  It was nice from the perspective of Malekith's personal fantasy, but it completely demolished the lore and themes of High Elves.  I wouldn't mind narrative for Malekith becoming ruler by conquest of an Ulthuan in ashes, but the whole rightful-Phoenix-King Malekith plot point has always struck me as the writers shilling for Malekith at the expense of established lore.

I agree that the ET lore is a bit of a con and don't like how GW handled it. The very core of the idea Malekith becoming Phoenix King just doesn't make sense. All because he didn't stay long enough in the flames? mages were protecting every king with spells and wards to keep them safe from the flames? why would they do that, considering Asuryans blessing is what makes them kings and goes against everything they believe in.  It's pretty comical. But the followup is what I like, with Elves going back to their roots of being a whole race again to stand against end times. 

I don't like all of ET, hate that GW FORGOT about Skarsnik, what Mannfred did was pretty stupid, but ET DLC may be a possibility, so it's just a matter of picking the best bits for thee game I guess. 

The mages protecting the Asur kings has always been in the lore as long as the whole story existed. One of them even deliberately killed himself by walking in unprotected. Aenarion and Malekith are the only ones who went in unprotected and came out alive (and even Aenarion in some versions died and was resurrected (hence ‘*Phoenix* King’).

More recently, in the ToL novel ‘Malekith’, Morathi explicitly calls out that Bel Shannar went in with magical protection and that it was arguably cheating the test.

That said, the ET story of ‘even though Malekith definitely failed the test, Asuryan still decided he was the true king and decided to actively curse everyone else until he gave it another go’ was completely ridiculous and terrible storytelling.

Though I did like the idea that Malekith was undone by his own guilt-induced self-doubt and fear of death and could have passed if he had trusted Asuryan and given himself over as his father did.  IMO that was entirely appropriate for his story as it drives home that Malekith’s own character flaws were the issue.

Give me the Disciple of Khaine as generic lord/hero or give me death

​

Lord_Zarkov#7252 wrote:

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

​

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

More magic for my delves please. Make Malekith an actual Witch King and sorcerers good at magic. 

Also, if CA are going through the End Times route, give us the Eternity King experience, with a combined Elf roster (units and LLs) for Malekith...that would be an absolute dream. I currently play a mod that allows me to force confed other elf races and it's amazing. Also, because I want the full ET experience, I have Incarnate traits for Tyrion, Malekith, Grimgor etc and I like that too, it expands the late game for IE, because all the traits are available on level 50 for all lords, so, because I don't even confed other factions until I build up forces, I can't use these traits and until I level them up it is pretty late in the game, which gives this smooth transition in power shift and ultimately an endgame for IE.

Dark Elves are definitely on the list with Lizardmen and High Elves for races which deserve an update to bump them back up into having top-tier mages.

I can understand why you might want Eternity King Malekith if you liked End Times, but for myself, I sincerely hope we don't get that kind of End Times lore influencing the game.  It was nice from the perspective of Malekith's personal fantasy, but it completely demolished the lore and themes of High Elves.  I wouldn't mind narrative for Malekith becoming ruler by conquest of an Ulthuan in ashes, but the whole rightful-Phoenix-King Malekith plot point has always struck me as the writers shilling for Malekith at the expense of established lore.

I agree that the ET lore is a bit of a con and don't like how GW handled it. The very core of the idea Malekith becoming Phoenix King just doesn't make sense. All because he didn't stay long enough in the flames? mages were protecting every king with spells and wards to keep them safe from the flames? why would they do that, considering Asuryans blessing is what makes them kings and goes against everything they believe in.  It's pretty comical. But the followup is what I like, with Elves going back to their roots of being a whole race again to stand against end times. 

I don't like all of ET, hate that GW FORGOT about Skarsnik, what Mannfred did was pretty stupid, but ET DLC may be a possibility, so it's just a matter of picking the best bits for thee game I guess. 

The mages protecting the Asur kings has always been in the lore as long as the whole story existed. One of them even deliberately killed himself by walking in unprotected. Aenarion and Malekith are the only ones who went in unprotected and came out alive (and even Aenarion in some versions died and was resurrected (hence ‘*Phoenix* King’).

More recently, in the ToL novel ‘Malekith’, Morathi explicitly calls out that Bel Shannar went in with magical protection and that it was arguably cheating the test.

That said, the ET story of ‘even though Malekith definitely failed the test, Asuryan still decided he was the true king and decided to actively curse everyone else until he gave it another go’ was completely ridiculous and terrible storytelling.

Though I did like the idea that Malekith was undone by his own guilt-induced self-doubt and fear of death and could have passed if he had trusted Asuryan and given himself over as his father did.  IMO that was entirely appropriate for his story as it drives home that Malekith’s own character flaws were the issue.

Well, the version I read was about Aenerion being "remade" or "reborn" from the Flames of Asuryan. So, yeah. Cool stuff. 

The ET story is bonkers, GW literally pulled that out of nowhere.

I always thought, that Malekith wanted the crown by all the wrong means and reasons. He didn't want to sacrifice himself for the elves like Aenerion did. He took the crown by force and started a civil war, because he felt betrayed. So, the key element to pass that test was missing. If he was motivated by sacrifice, he would've understood the test and passed it I think. 

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

​

Lord_Zarkov#7252 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

​

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

More magic for my delves please. Make Malekith an actual Witch King and sorcerers good at magic. 

Also, if CA are going through the End Times route, give us the Eternity King experience, with a combined Elf roster (units and LLs) for Malekith...that would be an absolute dream. I currently play a mod that allows me to force confed other elf races and it's amazing. Also, because I want the full ET experience, I have Incarnate traits for Tyrion, Malekith, Grimgor etc and I like that too, it expands the late game for IE, because all the traits are available on level 50 for all lords, so, because I don't even confed other factions until I build up forces, I can't use these traits and until I level them up it is pretty late in the game, which gives this smooth transition in power shift and ultimately an endgame for IE.

Dark Elves are definitely on the list with Lizardmen and High Elves for races which deserve an update to bump them back up into having top-tier mages.

I can understand why you might want Eternity King Malekith if you liked End Times, but for myself, I sincerely hope we don't get that kind of End Times lore influencing the game.  It was nice from the perspective of Malekith's personal fantasy, but it completely demolished the lore and themes of High Elves.  I wouldn't mind narrative for Malekith becoming ruler by conquest of an Ulthuan in ashes, but the whole rightful-Phoenix-King Malekith plot point has always struck me as the writers shilling for Malekith at the expense of established lore.

I agree that the ET lore is a bit of a con and don't like how GW handled it. The very core of the idea Malekith becoming Phoenix King just doesn't make sense. All because he didn't stay long enough in the flames? mages were protecting every king with spells and wards to keep them safe from the flames? why would they do that, considering Asuryans blessing is what makes them kings and goes against everything they believe in.  It's pretty comical. But the followup is what I like, with Elves going back to their roots of being a whole race again to stand against end times. 

I don't like all of ET, hate that GW FORGOT about Skarsnik, what Mannfred did was pretty stupid, but ET DLC may be a possibility, so it's just a matter of picking the best bits for thee game I guess. 

The mages protecting the Asur kings has always been in the lore as long as the whole story existed. One of them even deliberately killed himself by walking in unprotected. Aenarion and Malekith are the only ones who went in unprotected and came out alive (and even Aenarion in some versions died and was resurrected (hence ‘*Phoenix* King’).

More recently, in the ToL novel ‘Malekith’, Morathi explicitly calls out that Bel Shannar went in with magical protection and that it was arguably cheating the test.

That said, the ET story of ‘even though Malekith definitely failed the test, Asuryan still decided he was the true king and decided to actively curse everyone else until he gave it another go’ was completely ridiculous and terrible storytelling.

Though I did like the idea that Malekith was undone by his own guilt-induced self-doubt and fear of death and could have passed if he had trusted Asuryan and given himself over as his father did.  IMO that was entirely appropriate for his story as it drives home that Malekith’s own character flaws were the issue.

Well, the version I read was about Aenerion being "remade" or "reborn" from the Flames of Asuryan. So, yeah. Cool stuff. 

The ET story is bonkers, GW literally pulled that out of nowhere.

I always thought, that Malekith wanted the crown by all the wrong means and reasons. He didn't want to sacrifice himself for the elves like Aenerion did. He took the crown by force and started a civil war, because he felt betrayed. So, the key element to pass that test was missing. If he was motivated by sacrifice, he would've understood the test and passed it I think. 

Yeah, that’s pretty much my read of it as well.

Aenarion didn’t even expect to survive - his intent was to sacrifice himself to Asuryan to get His attention and aid for his people.

Just Asuryan decided empowering Aenarion was how He was going to provide aid.

​

Lord_Zarkov#7252 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

​

Lord_Zarkov#7252 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

​

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

​

TopKek#2685 wrote:

More magic for my delves please. Make Malekith an actual Witch King and sorcerers good at magic. 

Also, if CA are going through the End Times route, give us the Eternity King experience, with a combined Elf roster (units and LLs) for Malekith...that would be an absolute dream. I currently play a mod that allows me to force confed other elf races and it's amazing. Also, because I want the full ET experience, I have Incarnate traits for Tyrion, Malekith, Grimgor etc and I like that too, it expands the late game for IE, because all the traits are available on level 50 for all lords, so, because I don't even confed other factions until I build up forces, I can't use these traits and until I level them up it is pretty late in the game, which gives this smooth transition in power shift and ultimately an endgame for IE.

Dark Elves are definitely on the list with Lizardmen and High Elves for races which deserve an update to bump them back up into having top-tier mages.

I can understand why you might want Eternity King Malekith if you liked End Times, but for myself, I sincerely hope we don't get that kind of End Times lore influencing the game.  It was nice from the perspective of Malekith's personal fantasy, but it completely demolished the lore and themes of High Elves.  I wouldn't mind narrative for Malekith becoming ruler by conquest of an Ulthuan in ashes, but the whole rightful-Phoenix-King Malekith plot point has always struck me as the writers shilling for Malekith at the expense of established lore.

I agree that the ET lore is a bit of a con and don't like how GW handled it. The very core of the idea Malekith becoming Phoenix King just doesn't make sense. All because he didn't stay long enough in the flames? mages were protecting every king with spells and wards to keep them safe from the flames? why would they do that, considering Asuryans blessing is what makes them kings and goes against everything they believe in.  It's pretty comical. But the followup is what I like, with Elves going back to their roots of being a whole race again to stand against end times. 

I don't like all of ET, hate that GW FORGOT about Skarsnik, what Mannfred did was pretty stupid, but ET DLC may be a possibility, so it's just a matter of picking the best bits for thee game I guess. 

The mages protecting the Asur kings has always been in the lore as long as the whole story existed. One of them even deliberately killed himself by walking in unprotected. Aenarion and Malekith are the only ones who went in unprotected and came out alive (and even Aenarion in some versions died and was resurrected (hence ‘*Phoenix* King’).

More recently, in the ToL novel ‘Malekith’, Morathi explicitly calls out that Bel Shannar went in with magical protection and that it was arguably cheating the test.

That said, the ET story of ‘even though Malekith definitely failed the test, Asuryan still decided he was the true king and decided to actively curse everyone else until he gave it another go’ was completely ridiculous and terrible storytelling.

Though I did like the idea that Malekith was undone by his own guilt-induced self-doubt and fear of death and could have passed if he had trusted Asuryan and given himself over as his father did.  IMO that was entirely appropriate for his story as it drives home that Malekith’s own character flaws were the issue.

Well, the version I read was about Aenerion being "remade" or "reborn" from the Flames of Asuryan. So, yeah. Cool stuff. 

The ET story is bonkers, GW literally pulled that out of nowhere.

I always thought, that Malekith wanted the crown by all the wrong means and reasons. He didn't want to sacrifice himself for the elves like Aenerion did. He took the crown by force and started a civil war, because he felt betrayed. So, the key element to pass that test was missing. If he was motivated by sacrifice, he would've understood the test and passed it I think. 

Yeah, that’s pretty much my read of it as well.

Aenarion didn’t even expect to survive - his intent was to sacrifice himself to Asuryan to get His attention and aid for his people.

Just Asuryan decided empowering Aenarion was how He was going to provide aid.

Yeah and re-making Aenerion in his image. Aenerion wasn't quite himself after he was resurrected, right? I mean, Malekith became more benevolent when he walked out of that Flame, he used that dead ghost spell and refused to fight Grimgor (something not in his Witch King character, I think). 

Can’t say I really care much for the remaining additions in regards to units. Most elements left would just be a bonus to an altogether solid roster. 

I’d most want a mechanical overhaul with an interesting political system that would tie into a revamped Loyalty mechanic. 

Also a revamp of Har Ganeth’s faction mechanics and an LH Tullaris to put into Hellebron’s army.

I kind of just want a normal Sorceress LL? DE kind of has their entire roster as far as i can tell, but I'm no expert. They just need mechanical changes to have map level mechanics.

I had an idea for a pirate Sorceress LL that had a mix of spells from the Lore of the Deep and the Lore of Heavens. Chain Lightning or Comet instead of summoning the ghost pirate ship, maybe you get something that isn't undead crabs for the summoning spell? a small kharibdyss? I'm just spit balling ideas.

Lohkir is already the The Corsair Lord, but Dark Elves do love Piracy. so maybe she is more about dark riders and monsters? I know Lohkir's unique rite buffs the kharibdyss, and rakarth gives them regenerate, but i'm feeling she could do something more interesting. Doesn't have to be an existing character or they can take liberties with known characters.

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Melding#8229 wrote:

I kind of just want a normal Sorceress LL? DE kind of has their entire roster as far as i can tell, but I'm no expert. They just need mechanical changes to have map level mechanics.

I had an idea for a pirate Sorceress LL that had a mix of spells from the Lore of the Deep and the Lore of Heavens. Chain Lightning or Comet instead of summoning the ghost pirate ship, maybe you get something that isn't undead crabs for the summoning spell? a small kharibdyss? I'm just spit balling ideas.

Lohkir is already the The Corsair Lord, but Dark Elves do love Piracy. so maybe she is more about dark riders and monsters? I know Lohkir's unique rite buffs the kharibdyss, and rakarth gives them regenerate, but i'm feeling she could do something more interesting. Doesn't have to be an existing character or they can take liberties with known characters.

There isn't any other Sorceress material for a LL. Morathi is the only character to do that and she is already in the game.

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

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Melding#8229 wrote:

I kind of just want a normal Sorceress LL? DE kind of has their entire roster as far as i can tell, but I'm no expert. They just need mechanical changes to have map level mechanics.

I had an idea for a pirate Sorceress LL that had a mix of spells from the Lore of the Deep and the Lore of Heavens. Chain Lightning or Comet instead of summoning the ghost pirate ship, maybe you get something that isn't undead crabs for the summoning spell? a small kharibdyss? I'm just spit balling ideas.

Lohkir is already the The Corsair Lord, but Dark Elves do love Piracy. so maybe she is more about dark riders and monsters? I know Lohkir's unique rite buffs the kharibdyss, and rakarth gives them regenerate, but i'm feeling she could do something more interesting. Doesn't have to be an existing character or they can take liberties with known characters.

There isn't any other Sorceress material for a LL. Morathi is the only character to do that and she is already in the game.

There's a lot of named Sorceresses in the lore, most were represented by generic table top model. They're out of named Character lords, so they they either have to promote another hero to lord, but both are boring options, or pick a character from lore and make up rules for them.