Lore of Tzeentch : Redundant and bad spells

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3 days ago
Sep 16, 2024, 1:58:43 PM

The Lore of Change should be one that boasts a variety of potent magics with each spell in it's arsenal performing something unique and impactful. Currently the spell list suffers from some spells that too niche or redundant when a much wider range of things could be expressed.

Lore of Tzeentch...
-Passive: Great as is
-Pink Fire: Useful and has its niche
-Blue Fire: It's tracking distance is way too far from the caster, it also moves way too slow making it easy to dodge with characters. if you are using it to hit chaff it has overlap with pink
-Treason of Tzeentch: -16 LD surprisingly has very few applications, i think i've seen it used once competitively in multiplayer battles to route beastmen. it's use case is way too narrow esp in campaign where leadership buffs are found a plenty

-Siphon Winds: Neat idea but is very low impact

-Gateway: Powerful Vortex redundant with Firestorm
-Firestorm: Powerful Vortex Redundant with Gateway

My change recommendations

-Passive : Leave the same

-Pink Fire: Leave the same
-Blue Fire: Improve minimum tracking distance and speed. Make it a character or single entity hunting spell.
-Treason of Tzeentch: Replace with Fateful Teleportation. 300M or infinite range spell which teleports allied unit/units to the caster.

-Siphon Winds: AOE 100m duration 60 seconds, allies gain 90% spells resistance and enemy characters in range suffer 25% miscast chance.

-Gateway: Summons a daemon/daemons based on a table. lesser demons being more likely to summon greater demons beings less likely. All results generally equate to the similar gold values generated. OR all units affects by the gateway phase out for a 60 second duration. Meaning they freeze, cannot take damage, or be hit by spells or abilities 
-Firestorm: Leave as is.

I hope this inspired you to consider more unique ways to communicate the powers of tzeentch

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3 days ago
Sep 16, 2024, 2:35:53 PM

My opinion on Lore of Tzeentch.



Passive - fine.


Pink Fire - fine.


Blue Fire - fine as is, single target snipe long range and scatter blast short range. Has different applications based on positioning.


Treason - incredibly niche use, add the -attack into the base spell and make overcasting increase duration instead.


Glean Magic - low impact, needs numbers buff. 


Gateway - fine.


Firestorm - a worse version of gateway. The only spell I'd like to see reworked.


Updated 3 days ago.
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3 days ago
Sep 16, 2024, 3:15:55 PM

IMO, pink, blue, firestorm, and gateway are all fine. Firestorm is much cheaper on WoM than gateway and deals similar damage, but is less reliable. It'd have been nice if one of the spells was an explosion or bombardment instead of a Vortex so it could be used on walls. Gateway would probably be the easier spell to change into one (same animations, but make it an "explosion"). I don't think the redundancy of having 3 different AoE spells is really a problem, because it's very much in theme for Tzeentch, and bolt of change was made one of the army abilities.


Treason and Glean magic both probably need numbers buffs; probably with reduced costs or increased effect/duration.


Treason is basically overcast Doom and Darkness for 2 less WoM, but with 5/9 the duration. It could probably have its cost dropped by 1-2 WoM, or its duration increased from 20s -> 28s or so.


Glean magic is both a net loss for the Tzeentch player compared to using the WoM on anything else, and the 'benefit' is mostly backloaded to when the opponent runs out of magic/the Tzeentch player would normally run out - it's just a waste of WoM if the battle is lasting less than 8-9 minutes or longer, and even if it is, it's not a benefit without massive buffs/cost reductions available on campaign, where you have so much WoM that the spell doesn't matter anyway. That's true even with the 15% spell mastery from Greater Arcane conduit.

Glean magic could probably just have its its cost cut from 8/12 to 5/8 or so; maybe even 4/6 or 4/7, so it at least nets a positive effect long term for the Tzeentch player, or it could have some damage attached to the effect (in tabletop, it also inflicted a S3 hit when it succeeded. Making it deal ~12 or 13 dps during the effect might be enough - that's ~284/564 or ~312/611 damage for normal/OC; Spirit leech does ~707 for reference).

Updated 2 days ago.
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