Let's settle this once and for all with a poll so that we can all see the results!

My impression is that Rune Guardians would be monstrous infantry and Rune Golems would be SEMs, if they were ever actual units.

No, of course not. Play Chaos Dwarfs if you want Dwarfs with monsters.

Shard Dragons were actual tabletop units so I don't mind if they are added. As for actually wanting stuff, the only kinds of dwarfs and dragons that I find interesting are Chaos Dwarfs and Chaos Dragons.

Definitely yes on Shard Dragon.

Rune Golems, Rune Guardians and Ancestor Engines feel redundant.  They're all variations on the same theme.  We only need one of them.

The format of this poll is weird.  You should have just given each unit it's own option and turned on multivote.  And then an option for none.

Yes, for multiple reasons:

• 1. No DLCs without centerpieces
  • 1A). Dwarfs should get another DLC...
    • 1A-1). To address the over-aggressiveness of the Grudges and Age of Reckoning
    • 1A-2). To give Josef Bugman a DLC level brewing mechanic
• 2. The anti-monster mentality of Dwarfs are overplayed
  • 2A). Only the Slayer Cult actively targets monsters
  • 2B). If we ever got the Norse Dwarfs, the Norscan traditions they've absorbed would permit the use of mammoths and the like (even if Citadel Journal isn't canon)
  • 2C). It is an irrevocable 8th edition lore fact that the Dwarfs do use them, as per Monstrous Arcanum. Fact, no matter how badly "Dwarf Traditionalists" grumble.
• 3. A few monsters won't change the Dwarf playstyle
  • 3A). Ancestor Engines and Rune Guardians/Golems are what is gonna prevent things from breaking through armoured Dwarf artillery boxes. They are defensive sentinels
  • 3B). Shard Dragon IS NOT CAVALRY. Just look at the Kislevite Frost Wyrm. It can be used to stop other monsters from breaking through previously said boxes.
  • 3C). If you are worried about AI monster armies, unit cap them.

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Definitely yes on Shard Dragon.

Rune Golems, Rune Guardians and Ancestor Engines feel redundant.  They're all variations on the same theme.  We only need one of them.

The format of this poll is weird.  You should have just given each unit it's own option and turned on multivote.  And then an option for none.

I concur, IMO Shard Dragons and Rune Guardians would be more than enough.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

No, of course not. Play Chaos Dwarfs if you want Dwarfs with monsters.

1. Dwarfs only have one monster (Shard Dragon) and it's limited. So this automatically doesn't make them Chaos Dwarfs so your argument is moot.

2. Constructs are not monsters and the three other units are part of Dwarf lore. They are utterly NOT like the K'Daai.

SerPus#7395 wrote:

Shard Dragons were actual tabletop units so I don't mind if they are added. As for actually wanting stuff, the only kinds of dwarfs and dragons that I find interesting are Chaos Dwarfs and Chaos Dragons.

What about Magma Dragons? These things were very probably created by Chaos Dwarfs if one reads their lore. Thought it's about Hadgar, the eldest living Magma Dragon and how he was turned into one from being a simple Fire Dragon, it was all written to be so ambiguous if he was the first Magma Dragon or if he was turned into one of them. But knowing Chaos Dwarfs they probably pulled off the same thing they would do later when it comes to Black Orcs (AKA: they actually created the Magma Dragons and Hadgar is the progenitor).

DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Definitely yes on Shard Dragon.

Rune Golems, Rune Guardians and Ancestor Engines feel redundant.  They're all variations on the same theme.  We only need one of them.

The format of this poll is weird.  You should have just given each unit it's own option and turned on multivote.  And then an option for none.

Nah. They wouldn't be redundant and would be great force multipliers.

* Rune Guardians would shield your more vulnerable units (*wink*wink* Slayers) from ranged attacks (especially blunderbuss shots that would knockback Dwarf infantry), as well as block charging cavalry and monsters. Not to mention holding larger monsters in place for Slayers to flank.

* Rune Golems would do the same, but be even more useful due to also blocking loads of artillery fire while also being even more durable.

* Ancestor Engines...and this is where I don't know how would they make the unit. Though I'd like to see it as a both melee/ranged unit with an artillery attack. Being a cheaper, less durable but tad faster and versatile war machine with cannons, mortars, a flame cannon and a big honking clockwork hammer all looking like angry Ancestor Gods. Essentially if the Thunderbarge was a ground unit but also apart of having a ton of heavy guns it would also melee.

The Shard Dragon would be good for flanking and anti-infantry considering its arsenal of abiliites. That and also holding large monsters in place for Slayers to flank if not actually taking them down considering that it has Poisoned attacks along with Rabid Frenzy and its tankiness (one of the few monsters with a Ward Save mind you).

TheWattman#7460 wrote:

Yes, for multiple reasons:

• 1. No DLCs without centerpieces
  • 1A). Dwarfs should get another DLC...
    • 1A-1). To address the over-aggressiveness of the Grudges and Age of Reckoning
    • 1A-2). To give Josef Bugman a DLC level brewing mechanic
• 2. The anti-monster mentality of Dwarfs are overplayed
  • 2A). Only the Slayer Cult actively targets monsters
  • 2B). If we ever got the Norse Dwarfs, the Norscan traditions they've absorbed would permit the use of mammoths and the like (even if Citadel Journal isn't canon)
  • 2C). It is an irrevocable 8th edition lore fact that the Dwarfs do use them, as per Monstrous Arcanum. Fact, no matter how badly "Dwarf Traditionalists" grumble.
• 3. A few monsters won't change the Dwarf playstyle
  • 3A). Ancestor Engines and Rune Guardians/Golems are what is gonna prevent things from breaking through armoured Dwarf artillery boxes. They are defensive sentinels
  • 3B). Shard Dragon IS NOT CAVALRY. Just look at the Kislevite Frost Wyrm. It can be used to stop other monsters from breaking through previously said boxes.
  • 3C). If you are worried about AI monster armies, unit cap them.

Aye good argumentation. Not to mention that said Mammoths also come with Bolt-Thrower Towers (and I wouldn't see it as strange if the likes of Kraka-Drak Runelords would have those carry their Anvils of Doom on their backs). Though betting that after re-establishing contact with the rest of the Karaz-Ankor they'd be putting cannons on them.

Don't forget that Dwarfs also use animals in lore both in everyday activities (I mean, they even have their own special breed of ponies used in mines) and military (and The Old World gave them a cart pulled by ponies to either be an ale cart or an Engineer one where the Dawi throw around explosive charges like some Battle Wagon where everyone is armed with grenade launchers). So I wouldn't be surprised if they get carts pulled by ponies.

PS: There are a few Dawi in lore that DO actually ride animals, but they are considered oddballs by Dawi standards.

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PLHenry#4565 wrote:

I want them all, but I want them to add them purely to Norse Dwarfs as part of a subrace DLC. I think that's the best way of handling it, as it gives us three distinct Dwarf groups

Nope. Those four are all available to Dwarfs in general.

Norse Dwarfs on the other hand have Mammoths.

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Ben1990#8909 wrote:
What about Magma Dragons?

What about them? If you are asking if I want Magma Dragons to be added as a Chaos Dwarfs unit, then the answer is no.

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A_Nobody#8442 wrote:

Sorry, I'm just confused.

What in the name of the Lady of Sotek and Taal is an Ancestor Engin?

I don't think what my quick search threw up was what you mean.​

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The warmachines below the Thunderbarge here. Comes from the 8th edition general rulebook

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SerPus#7395 wrote:

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Ben1990#8909 wrote:
What about Magma Dragons?

What about them? If you are asking if I want Magma Dragons to be added as a Chaos Dwarfs unit, then the answer is no.

>A highly probable creation of Chaos Dwarfs (and by probably it's definitively because they are capable of pulling this off).

>Doesn't want it.

Yeah no. I want them for Chorfs and DElves (the latter because some do live in Naggaroth).

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Ben1990#8909 wrote:

>A highly probable creation of Chaos Dwarfs (and by probably it's definitively because they are capable of pulling this off).

>Doesn't want it.

Yes. It's just another boring dragon. There is nothing interesting about it.

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TheWattman#7460 wrote:

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A_Nobody#8442 wrote:

Sorry, I'm just confused.

What in the name of the Lady of Sotek and Taal is an Ancestor Engin?

I don't think what my quick search threw up was what you mean.​

​

The warmachines below the Thunderbarge here. Comes from the 8th edition general rulebook

Ahh thanks​

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

To be honest, Ancestor Engines just sound like what the Dwarfs use for Siege Towers.

One of them is a tower that does literally nothing.
The other hits units in melee with hammers and has guns.

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SerPus#7395 wrote:

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Ben1990#8909 wrote:

>A highly probable creation of Chaos Dwarfs (and by probably it's definitively because they are capable of pulling this off).

>Doesn't want it.

Yes. It's just another boring dragon. There is nothing interesting about it.

>Literally one of the more malevolent dragon species.

>Onyx black scales and a foul temper.

>Enjoys magma baths.

>Far superior fire resistance than other fire-aligned dragons.

>Literally a flying Dread Saurian and so damn big it towers in sheer size over the Toad Dragon.

>Breathe attack grows in strength depending on age and size.

>Said breathe attack is one of the few most broken breathe attacks in the entire Monstrous Arcanum. Forget the Shard Dragon with its Breathe of Nightmares or the Carmine Dragon's Coruscating Blast, this is a breathe attack that weakens a target's toughness (and it stacks every time the target is wounded with every blast). Only the Warpfire Dragon's Warpfire Blast is more broken (maybe).

>Single most powerful dragon in WHFB. Even Star Dragons can't hold a candle to it. Only Galrauch can actually kill it with his Breathe of Change.

Yeah no. It's a cool monster.