Sotek's video is quite detailed: 

https://youtu.be/Ax4LaYnQ_Hw?si=lFvHsO1BCOgCgjMB

TLDR: Grimgor is waaaay older than 800 years, from the Black Orc rebellions and Orcs as far as we know don't die of old age.

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Grimgor spent most of his time east of the World Edge Mountains and around the Dark Lands, it wasn't until relatively recently that he appeared in the Old World.

One of the big things about Grimgor is that in universe no one knows where he has been or where he came from.

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

TLDR: Grimgor is waaaay older than 800 years, from the Black Orc rebellions and Orcs as far as we know don't die of old age.

If that's it, this isn't really a convincing argument. Because the main problem is not that Gorbad is still alive it's that he is still alive ​​and no one has heard of him in 800 years which would be completely out of character. It's basically saying Sigmar is still alive and has been living in a wood cabin in Cathay doing nothing for thousand of years.

Gorbad is one of the most epic orc characters and deserves some good explanation and not "well he was just chilling". So: Crushing demons and time travel shenanigans in the Chaos Realms or nothing.

Also, could we lock and delete threads that just post a link to a YT video ? If OP doesn't have time to bother giving a TLDR on the content at stake (thanks to mecanojavi for doing it) maybe they should just comment on YT then ?

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Grimgor spent most of his time east of the World Edge Mountains and around the Dark Lands, it wasn't until relatively recently that he appeared in the Old World.

One of the big things about Grimgor is that in universe no one knows where he has been or where he came from.

Thats what I mean, someone like Grimgor doesn't go unnoticed for thousands of years, at the very least there should be legends about a "green daemon" or something.

I think this theory only sustains itself because the east has not been explored so people argue he just was in parts of the world we dont know of, but recently Cathai lore has been brought to the spotlight and there is no Grimgor, and if Ind or Khuresh ever get explored I bet it will be the same.

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

TLDR: Grimgor is waaaay older than 800 years, from the Black Orc rebellions and Orcs as far as we know don't die of old age.

If that's it, this isn't really a convincing argument. Because the main problem is not that Gorbad is still alive it's that he is still alive ​​and no one has heard of him in 800 years which would be completely out of character. It's basically saying Sigmar is still alive and has been living in a wood cabin in Cathay doing nothing for thousand of years.

Gorbad is one of the most epic orc characters and deserves some good explanation and not "well he was just chilling". So: Crushing demons and time travel shenanigans in the Chaos Realms or nothing.

Also, could we lock and delete threads that just post a link to a YT video ? If OP doesn't have time to bother giving a TLDR on the content at stake (thanks to mecanojavi for doing it) maybe they should just comment on YT then ?

It's not difficult for a GS to fall of the grid and still do it's thing.

As said, no one knows what Grimgor was up to before he appeared in the Old World because he was in the east around the Dark Lands.

The Empire for most of its history thought that in Cathay they had several emperors over the years when in reality it's was a typical case of "they are so far off that the little info we got about them was wrong", something that traditionally has happened in oir world as well.

For all we know Gorbad went east and took over some of the tribes around the Mountains of Mourn or even Cathay and has stayed there, resulting in no one hearing of him again in the Old World.

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Grimgor spent most of his time east of the World Edge Mountains and around the Dark Lands, it wasn't until relatively recently that he appeared in the Old World.

One of the big things about Grimgor is that in universe no one knows where he has been or where he came from.

Thats what I mean, someone like Grimgor doesn't go unnoticed for thousands of years, at the very least there should be legends about a "green daemon" or something.

I think this theory only sustains itself because the east has not been explored so people argue he just was in parts of the world we dont know of, but recently Cathai lore has been brought to the spotlight and there is no Grimgor, and if Ind or Khuresh ever get explored I bet it will be the same.

It's not a theory.

It's a fact that Grimgor's whereabouts prior to his appearance in the Old World are are a mystery.

It's also a fact that after the Black Orc rebellions the Chorfs stopped using them as slaves.

Grimgor himself was canonically a Black Orc slave, so it's a fact that he was alive during the Black Ord rebellions.

You are acting like somehow GW explained everything about everyone, always Fantasy had more questions than answers.

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Didn't the CDs stop creating Black Orcs at that time? Due to them being a failed experiment?

I think LoS's argument certainly holds water.

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

TLDR: Grimgor is waaaay older than 800 years, from the Black Orc rebellions and Orcs as far as we know don't die of old age.

If that's it, this isn't really a convincing argument. Because the main problem is not that Gorbad is still alive it's that he is still alive ​​and no one has heard of him in 800 years which would be completely out of character. It's basically saying Sigmar is still alive and has been living in a wood cabin in Cathay doing nothing for thousand of years.

Gorbad is one of the most epic orc characters and deserves some good explanation and not "well he was just chilling". So: Crushing demons and time travel shenanigans in the Chaos Realms or nothing.

Also, could we lock and delete threads that just post a link to a YT video ? If OP doesn't have time to bother giving a TLDR on the content at stake (thanks to mecanojavi for doing it) maybe they should just comment on YT then ?

Simply because a writer didn't write a book about him.

Rulers of Ind exist, do you know their names? Do you know what a number of ancient creatures in Nippon, Ind and Khuresh are up to? No, because they simply haven't been written about, doesn't mean they don't or can't exist.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Didn't the CDs stop creating Black Orcs at that time? Due to them being a failed experiment?

I think LoS's argument certainly holds water.

The CD's stopped making black orcs, but they can reproduce on their own now like normal GS do. The only real argument you need to if GS was alive during that time though, is Grimgor naming his elite Da Immortulz, which are pretty obviously named after the Chaos Dwarf The Immortals elite.

And the fact he was a slave in one of the main cities, which he has a particular hate for, does make it reasonable that he was an original slave from that period.

There is certainly a good argument that Grimgor was around in this period.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Didn't the CDs stop creating Black Orcs at that time? Due to them being a failed experiment?

I think LoS's argument certainly holds water.

The CD's stopped making black orcs, but they can reproduce on their own now like normal GS do. The only real argument you need to if GS was alive during that time though, is Grimgor naming his elite Da Immortulz, which are pretty obviously named after the Chaos Dwarf The Immortals elite.

it’s worth noting that TOW indicates that Chaos Dwarfs were still using Black Orcs in their armies in that era (circa 200 years ago) even if they weren’t using them as ‘labourers’ any more.

It’s possible Grimgor served in a Chaos Dwarfs army (which would explain the Immortals reference) much more recently than the original rebellion.

Also, as others have noted, the Dark Lands is much more out of sight of Empire chroniclers. Gorbad is right in their heart.

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Lord_Zarkov#7252 wrote:

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Didn't the CDs stop creating Black Orcs at that time? Due to them being a failed experiment?

I think LoS's argument certainly holds water.

The CD's stopped making black orcs, but they can reproduce on their own now like normal GS do. The only real argument you need to if GS was alive during that time though, is Grimgor naming his elite Da Immortulz, which are pretty obviously named after the Chaos Dwarf The Immortals elite.

it’s worth noting that TOW indicates that Chaos Dwarfs were still using Black Orcs in their armies in that era (circa 200 years ago) even if they weren’t using them as ‘labourers’ any more.

It’s possible Grimgor served in a Chaos Dwarfs army (which would explain the Immortals reference) much more recently than the original rebellion.

Also, as others have noted, the Dark Lands is much more out of sight of Empire chroniclers. Gorbad is right in their heart.

Grimgor was a slave, that's why he has such a hate for the Chorfs.

The Black Orcs from Old World are specifically not slaves, because of the rebellion, they are pseudo mercenaries.

Meaning that no, Grimgor wasn't a soldier in the Chorf army.

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Grimgor spent most of his time east of the World Edge Mountains and around the Dark Lands, it wasn't until relatively recently that he appeared in the Old World.

One of the big things about Grimgor is that in universe no one knows where he has been or where he came from.

Thats what I mean, someone like Grimgor doesn't go unnoticed for thousands of years, at the very least there should be legends about a "green daemon" or something.

I think this theory only sustains itself because the east has not been explored so people argue he just was in parts of the world we dont know of, but recently Cathai lore has been brought to the spotlight and there is no Grimgor, and if Ind or Khuresh ever get explored I bet it will be the same.

It's not a theory.

It's a fact that Grimgor's whereabouts prior to his appearance in the Old World are are a mystery.

It's also a fact that after the Black Orc rebellions the Chorfs stopped using them as slaves.

Grimgor himself was canonically a Black Orc slave, so it's a fact that he was alive during the Black Ord rebellions.

You are acting like somehow GW explained everything about everyone, always Fantasy had more questions than answers.

Its also a fact that in Tamurkhan black orcs and captured and sent to Zharr Naggrund and that in the Wulfrik novel there are black orc slaves. So your sole reason to say he is 2500 years old isnt a fact, therefore is a theory or headcannon.

"It's a fact that Grimgor's whereabouts prior to his appearance in the Old World are are a mystery."

Yeah, and my whole point is that given the nature of Grimgor it doesnt make sense for him to go unnoticed by milennia. And this isnt just about the old world, he doesnt appear in the ogre kingdoms timeline, he doesnt appear in the chaos dwarf timeline and he doesnt appear in the Cathai timeline, the space for him to hide during 2500 years keeps getting smaller and the theory of him being that old keeps making less sense.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Didn't the CDs stop creating Black Orcs at that time? Due to them being a failed experiment?

I think LoS's argument certainly holds water.

The CD's stopped making black orcs, but they can reproduce on their own now like normal GS do. The only real argument you need though if Grimgor was alive during that time, is Grimgor naming his elite Da Immortulz, which are pretty obviously named after the Chaos Dwarf The Immortals elite.

The immortals name was given to them by other orcs after seeing them fight, is not something Grimgor himself came up with. I wish the old forum was still active, I remember reading it in the post @Red_Dox#2328 made about Grimgor.

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

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mecanojavi99#6562 wrote:

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:

I don't buy that Grimgor was around during the black orc rebellion, what he just did nothing during 2500 years and suddenly became the most powerfull orc in the world?

Grimgor spent most of his time east of the World Edge Mountains and around the Dark Lands, it wasn't until relatively recently that he appeared in the Old World.

One of the big things about Grimgor is that in universe no one knows where he has been or where he came from.

Thats what I mean, someone like Grimgor doesn't go unnoticed for thousands of years, at the very least there should be legends about a "green daemon" or something.

I think this theory only sustains itself because the east has not been explored so people argue he just was in parts of the world we dont know of, but recently Cathai lore has been brought to the spotlight and there is no Grimgor, and if Ind or Khuresh ever get explored I bet it will be the same.

It's not a theory.

It's a fact that Grimgor's whereabouts prior to his appearance in the Old World are are a mystery.

It's also a fact that after the Black Orc rebellions the Chorfs stopped using them as slaves.

Grimgor himself was canonically a Black Orc slave, so it's a fact that he was alive during the Black Ord rebellions.

You are acting like somehow GW explained everything about everyone, always Fantasy had more questions than answers.

Its also a fact that in Tamurkhan black orcs and captured and sent to Zharr Naggrund and that in the Wulfrik novel there are black orc slaves. So your sole reason to say he is 2500 years old isnt a fact, therefore is a theory or headcannon.

"It's a fact that Grimgor's whereabouts prior to his appearance in the Old World are are a mystery."

Yeah, and my whole point is that given the nature of Grimgor it doesnt make sense for him to go unnoticed by milennia. And this isnt just about the old world, he doesnt appear in the ogre kingdoms timeline, he doesnt appear in the chaos dwarf timeline and he doesnt appear in the Cathai timeline, the space for him to hide during 2500 years keeps getting smaller and the theory of him being that old keeps making less sense.

This was a minor settlement, a single CD who chose to ignore the rule on keeping Black Orcs as slaves and as the book points out, that action led to the CD’s demise. This doesn’t contradict the fact that no Black Orcs are allowed in major settlements, especially the one Grimgor had a particular hatred for.

None of this is historical so, no info on a certain characters timeline is more to do with a lack of a novel than anything, not some historical inaccuracy.

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PoorManatee6197#6481 wrote:
The immortals name was given to them by other orcs after seeing them fight, is not something Grimgor himself came up with. I wish the old forum was still active, I remember reading it in the post

Huh, so it's just a coincidence that they share a name? Interesting

Why even try to justify it? We already got Repanse in the game. You can't get more anachronistic than that. We literally have two Dukes of Lyonesse in the game, from different time periods. For all we know Adalhard may even be a descendant of Repanse.

And no, you can't justify it with the Lady's Blessing, which Repanse does NOT have as she's not a Grail Knight, and even if she was, she still would have died of old age long ago.

To be honest, I couldn’t care less if a character is “supposed to be dead by now” or “would be too old” when it comes to TWW3. Immortal Empires is a sandbox experience; just give me all of the cool characters to play with!​