This is something I mentioned in my last thread I made, I thought it was a topic worth its own thread.

And that is the hows and whys of how most of the minor races may be connected to the Dogs of War and visa versa.

I will just try to get my frustrations out of the way first, but I do think that at present, just how much the DoW could/should get could very much depend on whether or not races like the Kingdoms of Ind and the Naga of Khuresh are going to make it into the game or not. Because I will say, that if the DoW are the last actual full race pack, they should be given the full nine yards treatment as it were. But I'll get into that in a bit.

And I'll be real guys, this OP will not only be a bit of the opening for a discussion, but a little bit of me venting my frustration with GW and how they've handled Warhammer Fantasy as whole.

I won't go too into all of it, but I still think that GW could've really handled things a lot better than they did with the setting, as there was plenty of stuff they could've done to at least try to revitalize Warhammer Fantasy, you know, instead of just rushing to blow up the setting up and trying to force us all to move to the stuff they tried to make afterward, like making that whole The Old World nonsense instead of just bringing back WHFB with a new edition and all. But I digress.

I think that we can all agree that it would've been pretty awesome if GW made a bigger and better deal with Sega to allow CA to add more to the TW: Warhammer games, probably more in Warhammer 2 & 3, such as bringing in and updating some minor races, such as Araby and others.

Look, I can completely understand CA only doing so much with Warhammer 1, as that game was the foundation that was needed for 2 and 3 to build upon, but that doesn't make some parts of this sort of situation any less frustrating.

And this is kind of where my frustration comes back in.

As much as I would've genuinely appreciated what I'm sure CA could've done with some of the other minor races, at present, I just wish they could just tell us what the situation is with how many other races are actually going to make it into the game or not. Because I just want to know if we should even bother getting our hopes up for those that could be left.

To get back to the main topic a bit more. 

I just think that it's incredibly frustrating to not know if the races of Ind and Khuresh are going to be added in or not. Because like I said before, it could just allow CA to go one way or another with what and just how much they're going to add and all that.  And last time I checked, Ind and Khuresh were still locked off, which just leaves things in the air.

At this point, I really believe that the overall safest bet is to hope that CA can be allowed to bring in some of the minor races into the game, even if they're regional mercenary units that somewhat come in along with the DoW, at least if Ind and the Naga of Khuresh don't make it into the game. But you get the point.

I agree with most people, it would've been so cool to see many of these minor races be added into the game as full fledged playable races, but sadly, that just wasn't what happened.

And seriously guys. Despite what some people may say, getting something IS objectively better than nothing!

I don't care if any of you call it "lifeboating" or whatever, it'd be far better for some of these minor races to be represented as mercenary units than to never be added in in any official capacity at all. Because like it or not, the DoW really are the possible lifeboat for some of those races to have any representation at all in the TW: Warhammer games.

But in conclusion. I just think that the DoW could very well be the only hope for some of these minor but still kinda cool races to be represented in Warhammer 3 in some capacity.

But I hope that we can have a good discussion.

i usually don't comment on these threads or ops threads. but i must say dow is propped up like every dream ever came true in some fans. i got to ask how sustainable this hype really is?

saweendra#3399 wrote:
i must say dow is propped up like every dream ever came true in some fans. i got to ask how sustainable this hype really is?

Until they come out and disappoint us.  :p

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saweendra#3399 wrote:

i usually don't comment on these threads or ops threads. but i must say dow is propped up like every dream ever came true in some fans. i got to ask how sustainable this hype really is?

It's not really sustainable. The OP in another thread suggested upwards of over 100+ units for the Dogs of War. That would be clearly unsustainable, and an unrealistic expectation for the second DLC race without it dominating DLC content for a long while. 

Given said units would be heavily recycled and hired out to other Factions......is it really?

I basically agree with everything the OP has said,

I know if those areas are opened up once the doors are closed fans will step up and fillout those races but when it comes to Araby, Ind, Nippon and Khuresh its going to be very difficult to get much of a consensus to what they should look like and how they should be implemented. If dogs of war have a couple of units and a RoR for each region then that gives a future basis to expand from.

Of course my hope is we will see at least Ind, I think they are the most diverse of the remaining factions and while Khuresh being evil snake people is a super cool theme they could be represented well enough with Slaanesh units. Ind is completely unique. Nippon would be possibly the easiest to mod in, as its feudal Japan. Araby are almost assured to get dogs of wars representation as they had it in the past, as did hobgoblin khans, and even Albion. Which rounds out the main missing elements really. There's always more we could want and ask for but I think getting Ind is a stretch.

I do not expect DoW to produce full subfactions for these areas but 2 maybe 3 units and a RoR or character is plausible, of course if the mechanics for mercenaries are well implemented I imagine again it will be expanded upon to show more stuff from the novels and missing units.

I am saddened by the issues Warhammer 3 has had, and as time ticks on only so much content will come and there's a huge amount I'd love to see. End Times I think would be poor not to be a big DLC that completely upgrades and reworks the end times scenarios with all the units and characters that it comes with. Race reworks and expansions for Vampires, Norse and ogres at a minimum, a rework for lizards. More for Cathey, more for Kislev, another Empire DLC for Middenhiem, Khorne and Slaanesh DLC, Ind, DoW.. It feels like much of this seemed achievable when Warhammer 3 released but as time has gone on its feels further and further away. I wider ranging mercenary DLC would provide a solid patch and is fine by me through I'd rather have more but at some point we just have to accept at some point CA will switch development elsewhere.

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WarbossAohd#6756 wrote:

Given said units would be heavily recycled and hired out to other Factions......is it really?

Yes, Warriors of Chaos has roughly 88 units including variants. Many of those are much more easily recycled variants, which plenty of Minor races couldn't do to the same degree. And a solid chunk of those are just Monogod units. So, they had a DLC, a game, and then a big update DLC plus the Monogod DLCs to even get somewhat close to a 100 units. And that's counting units like Spawn of Tzeentch, Spawn of Slaanesh, etc as completely different units.

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VikingHuscal1066#5774 wrote:
And seriously guys. Despite what some people may say, getting something IS objectively better than nothing!

If anyone was making that argument you might have a point, but no one is. No one is saying "I'd rather have nothing", they're saying "I'd rather have something else actually correctly implemented, than have something thrown in just so CA/GW can say it's in."

If I told you, that you could either have A. Nagash is added, but he's a normal sized human, who doesn't use necromancy but instead runs around with a warpfire thrower and speaks completely in marvel quips or B. Neferata accurate to her lore, I'm going B

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

GW used the DoW as a melting pot for all the little exotic cultures that they weren't going to give full races to.  Like Araby, Albion, Amazons, Halflings and Hobgoblins.

I'd love to see TWWH continue and expand upon that tradition by adding more units for those cultures, and more cultures to the DoW.

Yeah, I really hope they allow CA to at least make something from such minor races and factions, even if it's as part of the DoW, as it just feels like they they deserve something after being neglected for so long.

And I do really wish that they'd also allow CA to just say a simple and straightforward yes or no answer to whether or not races like Ind and Khuresh were going to be made.

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saweendra#3399 wrote:

i usually don't comment on these threads or ops threads. but i must say dow is propped up like every dream ever came true in some fans. i got to ask how sustainable this hype really is?

Well, I think that part of the hype comes from the fact that the DoW are one of the only possible races/factions that could be able to bring in many of these minor races into Warhammer 3 in some capacity and it would make sense.

I think that an updated DoW could be decent enough on its own, but I do feel like I agree with many people in that they could stand to have more to them, which could very well include mercenary units from various lands and races that they didn't have before.

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SaintCorn#3148 wrote:

​It's not really sustainable. The OP in another thread suggested upwards of over 100+ units for the Dogs of War. That would be clearly unsustainable, and an unrealistic expectation for the second DLC race without it dominating DLC content for a long while. 

Except that that's not really true Corn.

Again, you act as if any of this stuff only works the way you say it will, which is just flat out wrong.

You make it sound as if they could either only make a few units or 150+ units, which is just kind of smoke screening the truth of the matter. And the truth is Corn.

CA can make plenty of units without having​ to create them all from the ground up. They have plenty of animation skeletons, textures, and so on that they can use to create new units.

So it's not really "unsustainable". Because if the modders can create tons of stuff with the existing assets, so can CA. It's certainly not the impossible task you claim it is.

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WarbossAohd#6756 wrote:

Given said units would be heavily recycled and hired out to other Factions......is it really?

Are you asking if it's unsustainable or not?

Because I do believe that at this point, CA has plenty of assets that they can use to make new units from without too much issue. Because not every unit is a lord, hero, or SEM that needs a ton of special animations.

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crimsonsun#1168 wrote:

Yeah, I do wish we could've seen more, but I do think that what CA's been able to give us is still pretty impressive none the less.

And I do agree, I think that Ind could be a truly interesting race if CA's allowed to put in the effort in creating them.

And while I don't think CA will just move onto the next TW game and such super quickly, I do know that they can't just spend the next 10 or more years only working on content for Warhammer 3 either. And I just think that if we're only going to get so many new races, I think that they should make them really count, especially with the DoW.

I just think that GW should sit back and let CA make the DoW into something truly great instead of "sticking to the book" as it were.

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SaintCorn#3148 wrote:

​Yes, Warriors of Chaos has roughly 88 units including variants. Many of those are much more easily recycled variants, which plenty of Minor races couldn't do to the same degree. And a solid chunk of those are just Monogod units. So, they had a DLC, a game, and then a big update DLC plus the Monogod DLCs to even get somewhat close to a 100 units. And that's counting units like Spawn of Tzeentch, Spawn of Slaanesh, etc as completely different units.

No offense Corn, but this sort of comment just makes you look like an old grouch who doesn't want something to happen because something else you wanted to happen didn't, and you're just trying to push against it just for the sake of it.

But the WoC and all is different from the DoW and such.

Because the WoC and all were always kind of just different variations on the basic chaos warrior and all that. They were slightly different flavors of chaos warriors.

The stuff that could be added in with the DoW on the other hand has a lot more variety of flavor to it, as it's not all from the same areas and races.

To give a good example.

If CA is able to make an Empire 2, the factions from India would feel a fair bit different from those in Europe or the Native American factions and units. And that's because of flavor.

They'd all be humans in such a game, but they'd feel different because they would not only look different but play as well. And it can be very similar for the DoW in Warhammer 3.

To come at it from a slightly different angle.

There are tons of melee infantry in Warhammer 3, but the majority of them feel different from each other due to various traits and so on. So why would it be suddenly different when it comes to all the mercenary units the DoW could possibly get?

I'm just saying, it's not nearly as an impossible task for CA to make a bunch of units for the DoW.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

​If anyone was making that argument you might have a point, but no one is. No one is saying "I'd rather have nothing", they're saying "I'd rather have something else actually correctly implemented, than have something thrown in just so CA/GW can say it's in."

If I told you, that you could either have A. Nagash is added, but he's a normal sized human, who doesn't use necromancy but instead runs around with a warpfire thrower and speaks completely in marvel quips or B. Neferata accurate to her lore, I'm going B

Well, I've just run into a few people who have pretty much been like "Full race or bust!" about this sort of topic, as if anything but X race/faction being a full playable race is somehow a crime against nature.

I know that not everyone's like that, but I just found that it's better to be safe than sorry.

But I do agree, GW and Sega should allow CA to design the DoW to be the best race it can be and all that, but I do think that they should also be allowed to expand them from the old 5th and 6th Edition stuff as well, because they could very well be the only chance for some of minor races/factions to be represented at all.

I just want to them to go all out with designing them, within reason of course.

Personally I'd say that expecting DoW to be a giant hodge-podge of different races is a bit unrealistic. Consider the characters that will lead this presumably 3-4 LL race: Borgio (Tilea), Lucrezzia (East), Marco Colombo (New World) and Lietpold (Border Princes). We are not gonna get stuff like an Amazon faction in Lustria, Hobgoblins or Araby (such places are already too crowded), not from just a mere handful of mercenary units. At best, they'll be just that, one or two units, led by human mercenary generals and wizard hirelings. Pikes, artillery and cavalry will be the overall roster, with a wide variety of RORs alongside some flashy mercenary mechanics. That's it.

And honestly, at this point, I don't even want things like Amazons or Hobgoblins, or Ind or Khuresh. Why? Because whatever timeframe we're working against, there is so much stuff left for the races that we already have that has to be covered. It is better to focus on the established races and leave proper development of the others to future projects.

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SaintCorn#3148 wrote:

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Firstly, you know that when I said "the truth is Corn", that I was talking directly to you. So don't try to be a smart aleck. 

Secondly, just because you say something is impossible doesn't mean it is.

And I would say that if the DoW were the be one of if not the last race pack for Warhammer 3, CA should be allowed to go the extra mile with them and include mercenary units from other minor races that never made it into the games as full playable races, which will also depend on whether or not Ind and the Naga of Khuresh are added in and all that that entails.

And you really underestimate just how much CA could do with the assets that are already in the game if you think that they can't get a little creative with any of it.

I'm just saying, aside from maybe some lord and hero units, I don't really think there's all that much in terms of animations and such that CA would absolutely have to create from the ground up when it comes to the DoW and all the stuff they could possibly have.