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CA, I'm disappointed to see that you continue the trend of low quality FLC LL additions like in the previous games.

I've heard from the locals that this filthling has fully unique animations. That is not true. From what I have seen, only his idle animations are new - standard for past FLC LLs, too. As far as I'm aware, he has no unique combat animations.

In case someone asks 'what else could a guy on nurglings-ridden palanquin do?', my answer is, for example:

• Vomit maggots
• Throw explosive maggot-infested nurglings
• Impale an enemy with a sword and let a nurgling to hit them over the head with a bell
• Allow a nurgling to swing the hourglass that it holds.

What I expect from a good mechanic:

• Immersion
• Interactivity
• Engagement

Epidemius offers none of it. The standard Nurgle campaign involves spreading plagues. What's for the Tallyman, then? Well, he gets progressive bonuses for spreading plagues. That's pretty much it. The main gameplay difference is prioritisng plagues quantity over quality. It does not sufficiently explore the character's theme and identity.

This is the 8ED DoC entry of the Maggot King:

Loose ideas, all:

Keen Observer

The Reckoner of Mortality gets stronger with every Legendary Lord kill.

Plagues

• The symptoms’ location within the Plague web will shift with every plague.

Campaign map

Major and minor battles have a chance to leave battle sites. Battle sites can be interacted with, which can lead to an encounter with undead and/or plagued enemies. 

Possible rewards:

• New symptoms
• Blessed Symptoms token - spend to empower symptom of choice
• Plagued units - mercenary unit
• UI currency

Catalogue UI

The UI tracks surveyed battle sites, discovered symptoms, used plague types, total plague use, and how many plagues are active simultaneously.

Possible rewards:

• currency
• unit upgrade unlocks

The UI offers unit upgrades, many of which involve maggots. Many different maggot types. And flies. Because.

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:

Plagues

• The symptoms’ location within the Plague web will shift with every plague.

The mechanic naturally does this, unless you’re suggesting it happens every turn, which I guess, but that’s not new.

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:

Campaign map

Major and minor battles have a chance to leave battle sites. Battle sites can be interacted with, which can lead to an encounter with undead and/or plagued enemies. 

Possible rewards:

• New symptoms
• Blessed Symptoms token - spend to empower symptom of choice
• Plagued units - mercenary unit
• UI currency

Why would Epidemius care about battle sites? He cares about plagues and witnessing their effects. Battle sites randomly having undead and “plagued enemies” is based on nothing.

The current list of symptoms cover gamut of effects and Epidemius is in the business of counting plagues not creating brand new ones like Ku’gath.

Plagued unit recruitment? What is this based on?

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:

Catalogue UI

The UI tracks surveyed battle sites, discovered symptoms, used plague types, total plague use, and how many plagues are active simultaneously.

Possible rewards:

• currency
• unit upgrade unlocks

The UI offers unit upgrades, many of which involve maggots. Many different maggot types. And flies. Because.

There’s absolutely no basis for further unit upgrades for Epidemius outside of him naturally leading Plaguebearers and his own ability as a Locus.

You are shoehorning concepts that are only vaguely related to the character out of some UI fetish that you somehow equate to quality of a campaign experience.

The only good ideas I’ve seen here, counting the number of distinct plagues and the total number of plagues, could simply be done as an extension of the ribbon he has currently.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
The mechanic naturally does this, unless you’re suggesting it happens every turn, which I guess, but that’s not new.

Currently, it changes every 3 plagues, yes. To offset this I suggested the Blessed Symptoms tokens. A modifier to further alter the basic plague loop.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
Why would Epidemius care about battle sites? He cares about plagues and witnessing their effects. Battle sites randomly having undead and “plagued enemies” is based on nothing.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
The current list of symptoms cover gamut of effects and Epidemius is in the business of counting plagues not creating brand new ones like Ku’gath.

There is nowhere a mention of creating new plagues, but discovering new symptoms. It is all Papa Nurgle's honest work that he is utilising.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
Plagued unit recruitment? What is this based on?

On the fact that he cruising the world in search of plagues to catalogue. Finding plagued stragglers could be a part of it.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
There’s absolutely no basis for further unit upgrades for Epidemius outside of him naturally leading Plaguebearers and his own ability as a Locus.

There is no basis for further unit upgrades for many of the LLs.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
You are shoehorning concepts that are only vaguely related to the character out of some UI fetish that you somehow equate to quality of a campaign experience.

Vaguely related concepts? Absolutely! I'm applying creative liberty, and I'm not applying more of it than CA do in their mechanics. Yes, I certainly do equate it with quality of a campaign experience, because it is tightly connected.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:
The only good ideas I’ve seen here, counting the number of distinct plagues and the total number of plagues, could simply be done as an extension of the ribbon he has currently.

I'm responsible only for my perception. That said, the level of scrutiny I witness here is laughable. No other LL mechanics go through such purity tests. At least I don't see you complaining about Elspeth dealing with the Imperial Gunnery School. In my opinion, a fetish for bad faith arguments is far worse than one that is aimed at improving the game.

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:
I'm responsible only for my perception. That said, the level of scrutiny I witness here is laughable. No other LL mechanics go through such purity tests. At least I don't see you complaining about Elspeth dealing with the Imperial Gunnery School. In my opinion, a fetish for bad faith arguments is far worse than one that is aimed at improving the game.

I think the Imperial Gunnery School is fine, up until the Amethyst stuff, which yeah is also dumb. Artillery spawning mini void suns is dumb. Elspeth getting Gunnery mechanics because she’s associated with Nuln and it’s representative in game is at least based on a real connection.

Nurgle armies getting buffs through plagues is already conceptually and mechanically already incorporated into their current mechanics at base level. Epidemius doesn’t need another system with a new currency to do the same thing twice. Nor is it based on anything related to the lore of the character, unlike most lords that have similar mechanics.

Talk about bad faith arguments…

Passthechips#4366 wrote:

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:
I'm responsible only for my perception. That said, the level of scrutiny I witness here is laughable. No other LL mechanics go through such purity tests. At least I don't see you complaining about Elspeth dealing with the Imperial Gunnery School. In my opinion, a fetish for bad faith arguments is far worse than one that is aimed at improving the game.

I think the Imperial Gunnery School is fine, up until the Amethyst stuff, which yeah is also dumb. Artillery spawning mini void suns is dumb. Elspeth getting Gunnery mechanics because she’s associated with Nuln and it’s representative in game is at least based on a real connection.

Nurgle armies getting buffs through plagues is already conceptually and mechanically already incorporated into their current mechanics at base level. Epidemius doesn’t need another system with a new currency to do the same thing twice. Nor is it based on anything related to the lore of the character, unlike most lords that have similar mechanics.

Talk about bad faith arguments…

It is a real connection, but it also is a vague connection. Nothing more than a shared location, really. Malakai has a lot closer ties to the Imperial Gunnery School than she has.

I disagree, and I think that if we get another Nurgle DLC in the future, then we will see a mechanic that improves units regardless of the base race mechanic. Well, I think that what I proposed is in spirit of Epidemius's lore. Plus, like I said, those are all loose ideas. There are many possible ways to enrich his gameplay that have very little to do with what I presented. Every LL could have basic mechanics. Every LL could have elaborate mechanics. What sets them apart is budget, and creativity, perhaps. But first and foremost budget.

Indeed.