I don't mind the Thunderbarge having a lot of firepower, because that's the roll such a unit should play in the roster. But please let's not forget that Zeppelins are very vulnerable and sophisticated constructions, that can take a lot of damage, very quickly, in the wrong situations. Bloodthirsters and Dragons should tear the thundergarge in meele pretty quickly a part. The player should be challanged to bring the thunderbarge into the right situation, rather than just sending it straigth to the opponents army and just watching it destroying everything. This is poor game design.

Suggestion:

1. double the damage taken by the ability afterburner
2. reduce general health of the thunderbarge by 30-40%

While the proposed changes might seem a bit radical at first glance, big changes are needed to balance the unit at least a little bit (It's so STROOOOOOOOONNGGGGGGGG).

Here are some replays, that show the incredible powercreep:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVOMMfPFzmo&t=121s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltcK3i27O9c

It’s going to get nerfs and while I want it to remain strong, it shouldn’t do that much damage so quickly. It should generate great value over the course of a battle. It’s boring if the match is decided in the first couple of minutes based on whether you can or can’t destroy one unit.

Don't agree on the health nerf. Agree with increasing the damage to the Afterburner, and would alternatively suggest a solid nerf to its speed.

It should be a slow but tanky creation, at risk of being overwhelmed, which gives then a nice niche for Gyrocopters to serve as its escorts.

Any focussed artillery or range can get rid of the Thunderbarge. The example you used had the Cathay player with Saytang not bothering to fire on the Thunderbarge, the Great cannons similarly not bothering to fire on the Thunderbarge, Yuan Bo in Dragon form not bothering to attack the Thunderbarge, and then sending Crowmen against it. I don't know about you, but that seemed to be a poor example to judge the true value/capabilities of the Thunderbarge.

I think next week should prove more illuminating as the embargo lifts and we get to see far more videos.

To summarise, valid nerfs that don't detract from the Thunderbarge's niche:

1. Increased cost in MP (I know Turin mentioned potentially it being banned altogether)

2. Afterburner ability causing far more damage to encourage its likely intended use as an emergency thruster

3. Reduced speed so that flyers can intercept it

Dwarven Engineering. Built to last. Deal with it. *wink*

Afterbruner damage seems too low.

I however think that bit of a problem right now is that the things is bit bugged in a way that melee flyers struggle to actually hit it.

If that is remove I think it would be manageable in terms of counter.

Not for all races, some will really always struggle against it but that is part of the course.

IndyPride's video was quite valuable in that it showed the Thunderbarge in multiple settings. The flyers could easily catch up to it, but with its afterburner activated their combat animations couldn't land properly. That lends itself to the most obvious solution.

When it faced up against Artillery-focus with the Chorfs, it over-extended and got shredded by Deathshriekers & Blunderbusses, so it's high health pool is not a great feat for ranged armies to overcome. It establishes a niche for it where it excels as a supporting bastion, flying over friendly artillery & armies to lend fire support. It is most vulnerable when it's being used as a purely offensive instrument.

I don't think it needs massive nerfs, just slight tweaks to fit it in.

Mr-Vorn#1203 wrote:

Don't agree on the health nerf. Agree with increasing the damage to the Afterburner, and would alternatively suggest a solid nerf to its speed.

It should be a slow but tanky creation, at risk of being overwhelmed, which gives then a nice niche for Gyrocopters to serve as its escorts.

Any focussed artillery or range can get rid of the Thunderbarge. The example you used had the Cathay player with Saytang not bothering to fire on the Thunderbarge, the Great cannons similarly not bothering to fire on the Thunderbarge, Yuan Bo in Dragon form not bothering to attack the Thunderbarge, and then sending Crowmen against it. I don't know about you, but that seemed to be a poor example to judge the true value/capabilities of the Thunderbarge.

I think next week should prove more illuminating as the embargo lifts and we get to see far more videos.

To summarise, valid nerfs that don't detract from the Thunderbarge's niche:

1. Increased cost in MP (I know Turin mentioned potentially it being banned altogether)

2. Afterburner ability causing far more damage to encourage its likely intended use as an emergency thruster

3. Reduced speed so that flyers can intercept it

I see your point, allthough my interpretation of the situation is, that the cathay player didn't even bother to invest his shooting and yuan bo to chase the thunder barge down, because he knew, that they wouldn't be able to destroy it fast enough in order to prevent the thunderbarge from getting its value back.

OP So what? I play games to have fun. CA can nerf it for MP via price but it is time that Dwarfs and Empire also get OP units like Beastmen, CD, WoC.

KIT#5531 wrote:

OP So what? I play games to have fun. CA can nerf it for MP via price but it is time that Dwarfs and Empire also get OP units like Beastmen, CD, WoC.

is it fun to just win every battle with no effort? why not just play on easy if that's the case?

maybe try it first yourself, all other dwarf dlc units looks meh by the way, especially lord/hero

Mr-Vorn#1203 wrote:

2. Afterburner ability causing far more damage to encourage its likely intended use as an emergency thruster

Personally, I think it should simply have a cooldown.
If you have a huge, slow, flying missile magnet in your army list and no flying units that could defend it, its totally fine that you can reposition it once in a while. The problem I see is that positioning it poorly right now has no relevant risk attached to it, because you can simply undo this mistake by spamming said ability.
If said ability had a 60s cooldown and people would just rush it over the enemy army, it would simply die.

KIT#5531 wrote:

OP So what? I play games to have fun. CA can nerf it for MP via price but it is time that Dwarfs and Empire also get OP units like Beastmen, CD, WoC.

campaign can buff it by tech and skills

Loupi#8512 wrote:

KIT#5531 wrote:

OP So what? I play games to have fun. CA can nerf it for MP via price but it is time that Dwarfs and Empire also get OP units like Beastmen, CD, WoC.

campaign can buff it by tech and skills

Your right this is also a valid way to do it.

Mr-Vorn#1203 wrote:

IndyPride's video was quite valuable in that it showed the Thunderbarge in multiple settings. The flyers could easily catch up to it, but with its afterburner activated their combat animations couldn't land properly. That lends itself to the most obvious solution.

When it faced up against Artillery-focus with the Chorfs, it over-extended and got shredded by Deathshriekers & Blunderbusses, so it's high health pool is not a great feat for ranged armies to overcome. It establishes a niche for it where it excels as a supporting bastion, flying over friendly artillery & armies to lend fire support. It is most vulnerable when it's being used as a purely offensive instrument.

Well said. 

Limit the use of the afterburner to two times with 25 seconds duration and every problem vanishes. Flyers can reach and harm the barge almost all of the time. Overextending will get punished by blunderbusses and the like like in the 3rd part of indie's video. AND the dawi player can repair a small mistake and retreat quickly when needed.

Simple solution, great effect. Thus the zeppelin with a speed of 30 can solo only factions without flying units or missile infantry. not so many i presume.

turin video on thunderbarge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVOMMfPFzmo

It needs : 

•  -2000 hp
• +500 gold
• -100 Missile strength
• afterburner ability limited to 2 times with a 45s cooldown

Maybe even more nerfs currently it does around 4000 damage gold value costing only 2000 gold. It does not even need micro.

oh please, Dwarfs NEED this boost, besides, factions like the Empire are getting a massive upgrade.   I believe that you guys just want to keep being able to beat Dwarfs easy. 

It's obviously overpowered, made even worse by the fact that it requires very little micro. The afterburner needs a cooldown and to either grant far lower speed, or disable firing while in effect. It's far, far too much of a get out of jail free card. 

Its damage also feels overtuned at base. I get that it's a fire support unit, but the sheer output it has compared to how little micro it requires is nuts. It should accumulate damage over the course of a battle, not evaporate enemy lines by just being near them for 2-3 minutes. 

MurthorOathstone#8871 wrote:

oh please, Dwarfs NEED this boost, besides, factions like the Empire are getting a massive upgrade.   I believe that you guys just want to keep being able to beat Dwarfs easy. 

Dwarfs are a solid B tier faction better than chaos dwarfs in LB :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH2KjacJnHg

They certainly do not need an op unit like this.

songoffire#8157 wrote:

MurthorOathstone#8871 wrote:

oh please, Dwarfs NEED this boost, besides, factions like the Empire are getting a massive upgrade.   I believe that you guys just want to keep being able to beat Dwarfs easy. 

Dwarfs are a solid B tier faction better than chaos dwarfs in LB :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GH2KjacJnHg

They certainly do not need an op unit like this.

You are aware that this is a complete "current-meta-rating"?
It doesn't reflect how strong the units of a faction actually are, only how good people became at fighting them.
Everyone knows what is going to happen with this kind of rating once the DLC hits.
The DLC factions will climb the ranks, because people aren't good at fighting units they don't know well.
And everyone knows what is going to happen later.
The DLC factions will drop in rank again, because people start figuring their new units out.
Which is one core reason why the Chaos Dwarves dropped from S to C Tier.
Sure, they got some nerfs, but not to this extent. People learned how to play against them.