​Dear CA,

As we have before, the Total Tavern and Vermin League discord communities have compiled open source, peer-reviewed-and-tested balance and bug fix recommendations to enhance Warhammer III Multiplayer battles. We work with both the Domination and Land Battle communities to suggest solutions that work across the game modes.

This list has been updated as we took in the helpful updates as well as the major new balance issues from patch 5.1.

We suggest buffs where needed to help underperforming units, and where we suggest nerfs, making MP price adjustments are always an option if other changes aren’t helpful for Single Player. 

In the rest, we have our full set of recommendations for each faction. 

Thanks for continuing to support Warhammer multiplayer! Our goal is to make balancing this game as easy and low risk for you as possible.

-Eumaies (editor)

Top (revised) MP Balance Issues for Patch 5.1+

• Across all Factions, Centigors/CentigorGW/Centigors of Tzeentch got a stealth buff and need a nerf (e.g. +50g each to 750/950/1100). 

  - (!) Steam Tank still overly strong in melee vs cav, overly weak to cannon fire (e.g. size entity to “very large” to take fewer double hits; and fix melee hit box to match articulation profile of visible model)

• Key Dwarf nerf to hearth and home vigour (remove it or make it less than 1%/s, 3% is still WAY too high), and steam gyros +100g to 800.

  - wood elf Swiftshiver shards deep wood scouts variant should NOT have 180 range, put the range back to 135.

  - the buffed warshrine of tz is bugged/OP but should also only provide mana while it’s in melee to avoid toxic play.

  - doomflayers, dwarf boltthrowers, and fiends likely all need tweaks/nerfs (likely in that order).

The rest of this doc is our full recommendations, overall and in detail for each faction. We hope you will continue to reference these when working on any specific faction’s balance.

Full Balance and BugFix Recommendations:

(!!/!) = especially clear or impactful balancing issue

Recommendation areas that span multiple factions:

Spells:

Overly Strong Spells:

• Lore of Ruin Flensing Ruin (e.g.  +1//1 WoM to 13/19), 

• The Skaven Grey Seer Dreaded 13th spell (e.g. -50m range to 100m); A bit too strong overall with its very long range, damage, and summon

• Lore of Slaanesh's Pavane of Slaanesh is a great spell that now needs more WoM cost on basic especially (e.g. +2/+1 WoM)

• Some projectile spells after patch 5.0 merit a nerf including Gaze of Nagash (+2/+1 WoM to 9/15)

Spells that need buffs: 

• Big Waagh’s Foot of Gork (e.g. -3/-6 to 15/20 or more AP damage)

• Lore of High Magic’s Tempest (e.g. -1/-2 to 9/15), Arcane Unforging (e.g. -2/-3 to 14/17), and Fiery Convocation (e.g. -2s cast time or -2/-2 wom) 

• Lore of Yang’s Wall of Wind and Fire (e.g. -2/-2 to 5/9) very hard to land and Might of Heaven and Earth (e.g. -1/2 WoM to 10/18) (compare to Frostblade)

• Lore of Hashut's Hell Hammer(e.g. -1/1 to 15/21) given it's long windup time, Dark Subjugation (.e.g from 17/35s duration to 24/44s), and Curse of Hashut (e.g. -2/2 to  9/14) given very low damage even for its long range.  Also the Killing Fire lore passive probably needs to do 32-64 damage per tick rather than 15-30 to even be remotely viable.

• Lore of the Wild's Viletide (e.g. -3/3 to 6/10) (comparable to Lore of Waagh's Brain Bursta but lower range)

• Lore of Life's Shield of Thorns (e.g. -3/3 to 4/7 and -1s cast time) - too limited impact even in best conditions for high price and cost to cast

• Lore of Nurgle's Curse of the Leper (e.g. -2/2 to 6/9) - too limited impact even in best conditions for high price and cost to cast

• Lore of Yin's Talons of Night (e.g. -1/1 to 17/24) was over-nerfed over multiple patches

• Lore of Stealth's Black Whirlwind (e.g. -2/-1 to 13/19) easy to avoid the damage for cost, Skitterleap (e.g. +25s duration to 50s) and Veil of Shadows (e.g. -3/4 WoM to 3/7).

• Lore of Light's Banishment (e.g. -2/-3 to 16/21) costly to take and random in its effects for high wom cost

• Lore of Death's Purple Sun of Xereus (e.g. -2/-3 to 16/21) costly to take and random in its effects for high wom cost, and Soul Blight (e.g. -2/2 WoM cost to 6/12)

• Lore of Beast's Transformation of Kadon (e.g. -2WoM to 18) expensive spell and manticores are weaker now; spell is rarely used.

• Lore of Tzeentch's Glean Magic (e.g. from -40% enemy recharge to -100%)

• Dwarf Rune Spells (all) (e.g. increase range from 100m to 130m) would help slow mages. And Rune of Oath and Steel (e.g. add +10/20 missile block to basic/overcast)

• Lore of Slaanesh's Hysterical Frenzy was over-nerfed for the rampage loss (e.g. from 22/44 seconds to 25/50) 

• Lore of Little Waagh’s Night Shroud (e.g. -2/-4 WoM cost to 6/10)

• Lore of Vampire's Curse of Years (e.g. -1 WoM to 10, change to +30s cooldowns); spell is redundant with the much better vanhels

• Lore of the Maw's The Maw (e.g. -4/-4 WoM to 16/22 or add more AP to overcast) and Toothcracker (e.g. -2/2 WoM to 5/10)

Unit balancing that spans multiple factions:

• (!) All low-armour type foot characters need to have higher % knockdown resist so that they can actually be killed rather than fall over

• (!) all forsaken variants too squishy for price on ultra (+800hp).

  - Gotrek is overpriced (eg -50 gold to 1150) even for a multi faction unit

• Regeneration is excessively fast (much faster than WH2) even for units that otherwise are balanced (e.g. all regen abilities from .1% to .08% healing).

• Would be great if spells/runes 3-4-5-6 (out of 6) on spellcasters got progressively cheaper to encourage variety.

Domination Game Mechanics/Bugs:

• Unit cap weights in domination should value expensive units a bit more so they are not a liability; (e.g. +2 cap weight for High-Tier units or units costing >1200).

• [Bug] Resummoned units should not retain abilities gained in past lives (e.g. norscan Rage, Malus post-transformation, etc..)

Land Battle Game Mechanics:

• (!) Spell casters count too much towards the balance of power. Caster effects on balance bar should be scaled down with WoM spent or just be lower from the start.

Faction-specific Recommendations:

Wood Elves:

• Wildwood rangers are outclassed on the roster. If given “stalk” and "vanguard" they would see use.

Warriors of Chaos:

• [bug] Chaos Sorcerer of Nurgle does not count as a chaos marked unit

• Armoured chaos trolls synergize a bit too well with healing (e.g. +25g to 925)

• Chaos Warriors GW have been powercrept   (e.g. -25g to 825 or +2WS).

• See nerfs to Centigors of Tzeentch.

Vampire Counts:

• TBD?

Vampire Coast

• Aranessa saltspite is still a bit weak on ultra (e.g. +40WS).

Tzeentch:

• (!) If you want the Changeling to be usable in MP battles ensure he pays for spells/ abilities but not for items (which he doesn’t get).

• Chaos Lord of Tzeentch got a strange 50g price decrease in patch 5.0, should be brought back to a sensible price (e.g. +50g)

• Tzaangors are a tad too strong for price (e.g. -5cb).

  - (!!) the new warshrine of tz mana generation even if fixed should only provide mana while it’s  in melee to avoid being toxic 

• See nerf to Centigors of Tzeentch above.

Tomb Kings:

• Tbd

Skaven:

• Doomwheels too limited damage vs inf (set collision attack max targets cooldown to 3)

Slaanesh:

• -(!) Fiends of slaanesh were over buffed the only question is by how much

  See buff to Forsaken above.

Ogre Kingdoms:

• All good for now!

Nurgle:

• (!!) The Rotting Riders ROR Rot Knight is very overpriced relative to a basic Rot Knight (e.g. -200g to 2200) 

• (!) The ROR Nurgle Giant (Thunderguff) is overpriced (e.g. -100g to 1900)

• Nurgle army abilities charge-up should be a bit faster, and the tier 3 ability Rot Glorious Rot is too weak (e.g. increase duration from 18s to 24s).

• (!) Pestigors are overtuned with too many strong perks (e.g. lose missile resistance and -10 armour, or +50g)

• [bug] Nurgle Sorceror Lord on Rotbeast mount uses a hero slot

• Exalted hero of nurgle too strong  (e.g. +50g or -80ap for +80non-ap WS)

• Great Unclean One not enough value (e.g. -100g or more bound spells)

• See buff to Forsaken above.

Norsca:

• TBD

Lizardmen:

• Basic Stegadon long-ranged ballista needs to do more damage on ultra (e.g. +60WS 333->393)

• [!Bug] the Coatl's “master of sacred places” cloaking no longer works since patch 4.2

• Nakai the Wanderer’s Golden Tributes item should give -1% Vigour/s like other similar items rather than locking in vigour (which can lock you into being exhausted!)

Kislev:

• The Ursuns Roar song is too weak (e.g. remove LD effect and give +60%CB, +15% speed), and All Patriarch Songs could be given 55m range or a shorter cooldown.

• [!Bug] Hag Witches' basic ranged attack is bugged; always misses in very strange ways 

• Ice Guard (Both variants) have little reason to be taken; high price for decent ranged attacks and poor melee stats (e.g. +6WS to both).

Khorne:

• (!) Tier 2 Army Ability (Unrelenting Rage) is too weak, maybe add +40MA +40% WS or replace effect with invulnerability)

• Warshrine of Khorne (Giver of Furious Glory) is weak (e.g. 55m range, MA+16 max)

• See buff to Forsaken above.

High Elves:

• War Lions of Chrace are slightly underperforming even as a specialist unit (e.g. -25g and +5LD)

  -(!) fireborn ror dragon princes will almost certainly need a cost increase or tune down of damage (eg +50g)

• Arcane/Frostheart/Flamespyre Phoenix are all a bit too weak on ultra (e.g. +50 WS)

• Phoenix guard (e.g. give ITP); lacks bravery to endure relative to similar units. 

• Sisters of Avelorn are not competitive with other elite ranged (e.g. -1s reload time)

Greenskins:

• (!) Goblin Wolf Chariots used to double shoot but now that that bug is fixed they are too weak ranged dps (e.g. +50 missile damage on their ranged attack)

• (!) Grom the Paunch impacted by ultra (e.g. +70WS and set collision attack max targets cooldown to 4)

Grand Cathay:

• Peasant long spears could lose expendable (helps them in land hurts them in domination) or at least the expendable cap weight in domination.

Empire:

-(!) steam tanks’ hit box still seems to be bugged/misaligned in melee (cav can’t hit it well) and it still takes double hits from cannons.


• Handgunners need a small buff to be worth their fragility and cost (e.g. +3 ranged WS or -1s reload time) (weak since reload rates increased in wh3)

• Hellblaster volley guns (e.g. -50g to 950); Still a little too weak for the price point

• Mortars  need a small buff, perhaps to accuracy (e.g. +3 accuracy) or reload rate 

• Crossbows and archers are each slightly underperforming (-1s reload time)

Dwarfs:

• (!!) Thorek and the Runelord should lose the Rune of Hearth and Home item that grants vigor/ITP or remove the vigour buff

• (!) steam gyros still too cheap for great utility (eg +100g)

• (!) Flame cannons are still very bad (e.g. +40 range and more damage or -200g). 

• Rune magic should be designed with 130m range to enable the faction to play in a less boxy style in spite of having slow characters

• (!) daemon slayer lord should not have had his price reduced in patch 5.1 he’s very good (+100g)

  - dragon slayer is a bit underpriced for utility (eg +50g to 650) but his items/abilities are all overpriced and unusable (-50g each)

• Thane is very tanky could cost a bit more (e.g. +50 to 550) but the Silver Horn of Vengeance needs a buff (e.g. to +24 CB total) and Rune of dismay (e.g. to 20% slow)

• Quarrelers GW (e.g. -25g to 575); Normal quarrelers are always better.

• Rangers GW (e.g. -50g to 600 or +30 range or rework into a melee unit with less ammo); So fragile they are rarely viable 

• The Skolder Guard ROR (e.g. -50g or +10 range); doesn't have much reason to be taken at price point relative to standard flames right now.

Demons of Chaos:

• Warshrine of tz is even crazier here…

Dark Elves:

• (!!) Doomfire warlocks  (e.g. -200g to 1000 or give them frenzy, +500hp, +100 mass, and Sorcerous Miasma); Very underperforming relative to other glass cannon cavalry

• (!) Crone Hellebron very fragile with limited upside (e.g. +50WS on all mounts; -150g cost on manticore; On cauldron of blood, also give +20 CB, +20BvI, and set collision attack max targets cooldown and attacks both to 4.

• Cold One Knights were nerfed in patch 4.2 with the primal instinct change and are already weaker than Lizardmen cold one spear cav; need help (e.g. +3MA/+3MD or +300hp)

• Khainite assassins (e.g. -50g to 650);overpriced on ultra

• Malus Darkblade Warpsword of Khaine healing is a little too strong (e.g. reduce to 0.18%) leading him to just heal-capping

Chaos Dwarfs:

• (!) Chalice of Blood and Darkness (cut from 13s to 9s duration); heal caps too reliably

• (!) Bull Centaur Tau’Rok (e.g. -100g to 1100) too pricey for impact (compare to Gorebull)

• (!) Hobgoblin Archers (e.g. -50g to 475 or small buffs) these guys are overpriced for what they can do at relatively short range;

Brettonia:

• (!) Internal balance of cavalry is still poor; Consider -600 hp (or +100g) on Hippogryphs/Grail knights/guardians, but +2AP WS on Questing Knights 

• Peasant mobs are too useful for price (e.g. +25g to 125g)

Beastmen:

•  Bestigors (e.g. +6CB or -50g); Like other GW units, unit performs badly for cost even accounting for its speed

  - (!) Gor herds buffs were too extreme to come with no cost increase (eg +50g)

• See nerfs to Tzaangors, Pestigors, Centigors, Centigors GW and Centigors of Tzeentch. They make bm the strongest faction right now.

As a BM player I do find it weird that CA made all BM minos 1200, I understand buffing dual weapon minos(I only have used them against DW, they aren't that useful), but shield and especially GW minos shouldn't be that cheap. I see that khorne minos are at 1300 now, so it will be weird for a 50g difference between the dual/GW minos (if your changes are implemented) between the factions considering KH minos get frenzy, +35 armour, +15% spell resistance(not that useful tbf) at the cost of a decent amount of MD (for a mino). For BM minos I think GW should be 1350 as it use to be, they should be at least 1300 for their performance. Dual weapons can stay at 1200 (cost of 2 razorgors) while shields get nudged back to 1250g. In accordance khorne can have his dual weapon minos get -50g into 1250 while his GW stay at 1300 or match BM mino GW cost. Also if normal and GW centigors get +50g, throwing axes should as well. They may be a skirmish unit, but they have the same MA and MD as GW, just lower CB, HP and not AP majority. I also appreciate the vile tide buff. Hopefully more solid patches/hotfixes will come around to make MP as based as it should be, keep up the gaming Eumaies. Also I hate Ultra unit size, that shit is mega gross. I will fight any amount of small sized ultra enjoyers with my ultra anus to bring back Large unit size. Mark my words.

grail cav likely need +50 to 100 gold as they are currently. though again just remove the AP come on CA 

Would definitely add

1. Toad Dragon. It's currently terrible. Costs 2100 performs like 1500.

2. Tamurkhan on Toad Dragon gets worse than on foot but pays 1300 for it.

3. Belakor's 60% resist ability is a bit overpowered for price. Belakor without it is just an average decent fighter, Belakor with unlimited 60% resists can counter spirit leech / rancid visitations and 1v1 literally anything in the game.

4. Abilities that accumulate their effect with entity kills are most likely tuned for SP and are not viable in MP (Belakors "Blade of Shadows" / Skarbrands "Slaughter & Carnage"). They require 500 kills to reach full effect. Under no circumstances can a single unit get that much kills in MP battle, by the time your whole army gets 500 kills you already won the match. The max I was able to get was about 160 kills if I'm really trying to get cheap kills and still win the match and not beating peasants with $3000 lord... would make this ability free or reduce the number of kills required for 100% effect to 150 or so. It's OK that you wont achieve 100% in every battle but it must be at least possible in theory. Or even better base the effect strength on the amount of damage dealt, not the number of entities killed. Because sometimes Belakor gets 4K damage value with 10 kills from beating enemy monsters.

5. May be lower the number of kills required to activate Hellblade on exalted bloodletters and bloodcrushers. 80 is kinda a lot for an MP. Against peasants it would work, against elvish low-number infantry it will be a struggle.

6. Naked Daemon Princes have different stats but are priced similarly. For example Tzeentch prince is non-AP while Nurgle one is AP with poison. Nurglish one seems to be better.

7. Am I the only one who feels like Chaos Knights Lances with mark of Slaanesh are overnerfed? They have 60 CB instead of default 80 but their stats are garbage and they are expensive. Normal Chaos Knights of Slaanesh have 44 CB (with flanker it will become 88 which is higher than non-marked Chaos Knights Lances have... and normal Knights of Slaanesh have all the MA MD of grindy knights) so there is literally no reason to pick Knights Lances of Slaanesh with nerfed CB if the normal ones do almost the same with flank charges and do better in all other situations.

8. Laser breath on Carmine Dragon is OP. It + spirit leech + the first strike from the dragon charge can literally oneshot a hero/lord/monster with 5K HP. Would prefer to reduce the number of uses to 1 per match rather than nerfing the damage to the point where it would  become "yet another boring anti-infantry breath".

9. Harald Hammerstorm doesn't have a mark of khorne. For some reason he is in the WOC roster but not available in Khorne roster.