Technically already possible, but it's tedious to do.

To make it easier (including in mod if CA doesn't want to invest too much tome on it).

- Fix bug reported by "Battle Standard & Officer" mod

- Fix position of officer for cavalry, they currently are in the back and side, instead of front and middle. Infantry is fine.

- Consider adding a column in land_battle_personality junction, so an officer/banner could be based on the faction, and not always the same for a given unit.

Update : Do you have any new about this @CreativeAssembly ?

Hi,  thanks for sharing this, I really like this idea - and it was a thing in the tabletop game also.

I duno if we will ever be able to do it due to;

1) cost (across all the races which would need bespoke models at once)

2) Technical/code limitations - I'll have to ask around and see how much the current engine is capable of putting these in 

But i'll raise this as this definitely is very cool to have if we could :)

CA_Archimedes#9221 wrote:

Hi,  thanks for sharing this, I really like this idea - and it was a thing in the tabletop game also.

I duno if we will ever be able to do it due to;

1) cost (across all the races which would need bespoke models at once)

2) Technical/code limitations - I'll have to ask around and see how much the current engine is capable of putting these in 

But i'll raise this as this definitely is very cool to have if we could :)

Understood that some things the community wants may not be the best use of resources for CA. With that in mind, it would great if CA could make it possibly for modders to mod.

Things like banners and regional recuitment of units that retain subfaction colours. It was possible before in WH1, but talking to modders they say it's been made infinitely harder to replacate in WH3.

Tyrant#1234 wrote:

CA_Archimedes#9221 wrote:

Hi,  thanks for sharing this, I really like this idea - and it was a thing in the tabletop game also.

I duno if we will ever be able to do it due to;

1) cost (across all the races which would need bespoke models at once)

2) Technical/code limitations - I'll have to ask around and see how much the current engine is capable of putting these in 

But i'll raise this as this definitely is very cool to have if we could :)

Understood that some things the community wants may not be the best use of resources for CA. With that in mind, it would great if CA could make it possibly for modders to mod.

Things like banners and regional recuitment of units that retain subfaction colours. It was possible before in WH1, but talking to modders they say it's been made infinitely harder to replacate in WH3.

I wouldn't see its "infinitely harder". It's different.

It is still possible, I have a mod for WH3  where units have banners and heraldry/colour based on the region where you recruit them. It cannot be done the same way as for WH1 or WH2, where we had "resource" (left over from Rome 2, used by auxiliary), and this has been completly removed by CA. So I had to be creative to find another solution, this one is entirely scripted. It has some benefits, it allows finer control : like having units based on region and not province (Brionne units are different from Carcassonne), or even city (units are different if you recruit them while garrisonned in Altdorf, or outside the city in Reikland).

However, there are currently two big limitations

- the graphics (model, texture, icons, colours) are defined in a table linking unit and faction. But there is no way to link it to a region.

- officers and banners are defined in a table linking a unit and these personalities. Again no way to link it to a region.

 So to make regional recruitment, you need to create as many copy of a base unit as you want regional variations. It means you could have maybe 20 copies of every unit. So it's x20 memory usage, and thousands of extra lines in the db. It's tedious, time consuming, and not too good for performances. It works, but it is far from optimal.

If CA wants to help modders, and don't want to invest too many resources, they could

- fix the two bugs we have with banners (officer placement and post battle calculation)

- add a way in unit_variant_colour and land_unit_to_battle_personalities table to add the region and faction as a parameter, so the SAME unit could have different colours or officer based on the region where it is recruited (if not empty), then the faction recruiting it (if region is empty and faction is not empty). It works with faction at the moment, CA needs to hide the region.

- possibly make a few generic animation for standard bearers. Ideally using a prop for banners that could be easily retextured independantly (just add the banner as a weapon to a bannermen, no need to create new anim sets as we have now).

If CA does this, it would allow reducing size of mods like mine by 95% (for db tables), it will be much faster and easier to do.

Here is an example of the full roster for Bretonnia

Thank you for answer @CA_Archimedes#9221 but I have some solutions :

1) Not all races have to get banners, but only organized factions like Empire, Bretonnia, Elves, Cathay and Dwarves (and Chaos/Undeads why not). Others like lizardmen, skavens or beastmen are not supposed to get banners necessary.

2) Modders were able to do this by the past, so you should be able too I guess

3) You can also only fix the bug which prevent modders to make this by themselves, because the previous mod has been discontinued because of this issue

Yes please, raise this. This is a feature which is a part of Warhammer universe, and Warhammer without banners/officers is not really Warhammer...

Small clarifications: 

1) Even limiting that to Empire, Elves, Dwarves, Bretonnia (and why no Cathay or Kislev? Why not Skaven, they have an heraldry book), that's still dozens if not hundreds of banners, with the limitation that the current engine doesn't make it easy (so my post above). But CA could for sure adapt the engine to support it, this can't be done by modders alone.

3) the bug doesn't prevent modders from adding banners. But it can break the game by giving TONS of money in post battle rewards.

Steph#6413 wrote:

Tyrant#1234 wrote:

CA_Archimedes#9221 wrote:

Hi,  thanks for sharing this, I really like this idea - and it was a thing in the tabletop game also.

I duno if we will ever be able to do it due to;

1) cost (across all the races which would need bespoke models at once)

2) Technical/code limitations - I'll have to ask around and see how much the current engine is capable of putting these in 

But i'll raise this as this definitely is very cool to have if we could :)

Understood that some things the community wants may not be the best use of resources for CA. With that in mind, it would great if CA could make it possibly for modders to mod.

Things like banners and regional recuitment of units that retain subfaction colours. It was possible before in WH1, but talking to modders they say it's been made infinitely harder to replacate in WH3.

I wouldn't see its "infinitely harder". It's different.

It is still possible, I have a mod for WH3  where units have banners and heraldry/colour based on the region where you recruit them. It cannot be done the same way as for WH1 or WH2, where we had "resource" (left over from Rome 2, used by auxiliary), and this has been completly removed by CA. So I had to be creative to find another solution, this one is entirely scripted. It has some benefits, it allows finer control : like having units based on region and not province (Brionne units are different from Carcassonne), or even city (units are different if you recruit them while garrisonned in Altdorf, or outside the city in Reikland).

However, there are currently two big limitations

- the graphics (model, texture, icons, colours) are defined in a table linking unit and faction. But there is no way to link it to a region.

- officers and banners are defined in a table linking a unit and these personalities. Again no way to link it to a region.

 So to make regional recruitment, you need to create as many copy of a base unit as you want regional variations. It means you could have maybe 20 copies of every unit. So it's x20 memory usage, and thousands of extra lines in the db. It's tedious, time consuming, and not too good for performances. It works, but it is far from optimal.

If CA wants to help modders, and don't want to invest too many resources, they could

- fix the two bugs we have with banners (officer placement and post battle calculation)

- add a way in unit_variant_colour and land_unit_to_battle_personalities table to add the region and faction as a parameter, so the SAME unit could have different colours or officer based on the region where it is recruited (if not empty), then the faction recruiting it (if region is empty and faction is not empty). It works with faction at the moment, CA needs to hide the region.

- possibly make a few generic animation for standard bearers. Ideally using a prop for banners that could be easily retextured independantly (just add the banner as a weapon to a bannermen, no need to create new anim sets as we have now).

If CA does this, it would allow reducing size of mods like mine by 95% (for db tables), it will be much faster and easier to do.

Here is an example of the full roster for Bretonnia

Yeah I asked Gigiauz who made the "Lore Friendly Regional Recruitment" mod for WH1 if he was going to add regional recruitment to his WH2 "Uniforms and Heraldry" mods.

He mentioned the time needed to edit the tables and he wasn't prepared to do that.

Steph#6413 wrote:

Yeah I asked Gigiauz who made the "Lore Friendly Regional Recruitment" mod for WH1 if he was going to add regional recruitment to his WH2 "Uniforms and Heraldry" mods. He mentioned the time needed to edit the tables and he wasn't prepared to do that.

I did a WH2 with all the races already, and using some of Gigi's textures. I'm doing it again for WH3. One race at a time. Full regional recruitment, with colors, heraldry on shields/cloth when applicable. Even guns sometimes. I've done Cathay, Kislev, the Empire, Bretonnia, and I'm working on High Elves. But it's long and tedious, 2-3 months for each race at least, and that's without banners. Add one or two months for banners.

Doing that for WH3 is not really more difficult or complex than it was for WH2. But a simple port is not possible, the way textures are done is a bit different for example. So you need to convert everythingn, and it's a lot of work. I guess you need to be as crazy as I am to undertake the task.

Gods' work you're doing. I would offer to help, but won't know where to start, I did try some modding for WH2 trying to make more TT accurate Damsels, but never finished.

Forgotten how mostly, but I do know my way around dds textures a bit and a little on editing tables, though probably need to relearn a lot with the changes between WH2 and WH3

I tried to send you a message, but I doesn't seem to work ;(.

Hi

I'm not sure how I can get help to speed the process for my mod. What I'm doing

- db editing to add all the copies of unit. "Mechanical" work, a bit tedious, need to be careful, but not complicated.

- model editing: current work process: I cut the base model in several independant parts, and reorganize the variantmeshdefinition, so I can have more "random" variations with few textures.

- texture editing: make different variant, with shield heraldry, generic/regional version (dull metal/bright metal for exemple)

- Link model to db

- Script to make regional recruitment work

- Icon production (not really difficult, but again time consuming).

- Tests

It's at least possible to test: try every unit in custom battles, to be sure there's no typo or mistake, try campaign with the new race to be sure regional recruitment is OK..

And if you feel like helping with other parts, and have time, I can give you my discord and explain what I'm doing and how.

Steph#6413 wrote:

Tyrant#1234 wrote:

CA_Archimedes#9221 wrote:

Hi,  thanks for sharing this, I really like this idea - and it was a thing in the tabletop game also.

I duno if we will ever be able to do it due to;

1) cost (across all the races which would need bespoke models at once)

2) Technical/code limitations - I'll have to ask around and see how much the current engine is capable of putting these in 

But i'll raise this as this definitely is very cool to have if we could :)

Understood that some things the community wants may not be the best use of resources for CA. With that in mind, it would great if CA could make it possibly for modders to mod.

Things like banners and regional recuitment of units that retain subfaction colours. It was possible before in WH1, but talking to modders they say it's been made infinitely harder to replacate in WH3.

I wouldn't see its "infinitely harder". It's different.

It is still possible, I have a mod for WH3  where units have banners and heraldry/colour based on the region where you recruit them. It cannot be done the same way as for WH1 or WH2, where we had "resource" (left over from Rome 2, used by auxiliary), and this has been completly removed by CA. So I had to be creative to find another solution, this one is entirely scripted. It has some benefits, it allows finer control : like having units based on region and not province (Brionne units are different from Carcassonne), or even city (units are different if you recruit them while garrisonned in Altdorf, or outside the city in Reikland).

However, there are currently two big limitations

- the graphics (model, texture, icons, colours) are defined in a table linking unit and faction. But there is no way to link it to a region.

- officers and banners are defined in a table linking a unit and these personalities. Again no way to link it to a region.

 So to make regional recruitment, you need to create as many copy of a base unit as you want regional variations. It means you could have maybe 20 copies of every unit. So it's x20 memory usage, and thousands of extra lines in the db. It's tedious, time consuming, and not too good for performances. It works, but it is far from optimal.

If CA wants to help modders, and don't want to invest too many resources, they could

- fix the two bugs we have with banners (officer placement and post battle calculation)

- add a way in unit_variant_colour and land_unit_to_battle_personalities table to add the region and faction as a parameter, so the SAME unit could have different colours or officer based on the region where it is recruited (if not empty), then the faction recruiting it (if region is empty and faction is not empty). It works with faction at the moment, CA needs to hide the region.

- possibly make a few generic animation for standard bearers. Ideally using a prop for banners that could be easily retextured independantly (just add the banner as a weapon to a bannermen, no need to create new anim sets as we have now).

If CA does this, it would allow reducing size of mods like mine by 95% (for db tables), it will be much faster and easier to do.

Here is an example of the full roster for Bretonnia

Is this Bretonnian Heraldry mod yours did you say? 

That looks amazing, love all the different regions and heraldry represented there :)

Steph#6413 wrote:

I tried to send you a message, but I doesn't seem to work ;(.

Hi

I'm not sure how I can get help to speed the process for my mod. What I'm doing

- db editing to add all the copies of unit. "Mechanical" work, a bit tedious, need to be careful, but not complicated.

- model editing: current work process: I cut the base model in several independant parts, and reorganize the variantmeshdefinition, so I can have more "random" variations with few textures.

- texture editing: make different variant, with shield heraldry, generic/regional version (dull metal/bright metal for exemple)

- Link model to db

- Script to make regional recruitment work

- Icon production (not really difficult, but again time consuming).

- Tests

It's at least possible to test: try every unit in custom battles, to be sure there's no typo or mistake, try campaign with the new race to be sure regional recruitment is OK..

And if you feel like helping with other parts, and have time, I can give you my discord and explain what I'm doing and how.

Yeah man, I'm up for helping. Painting dds is probably easiest for me to start with.

Editing tables I'll be happy to help with, but would need to re-learn what links to where, but if you can screenshot a rough guide of what names needs to go where that should help me pick things up faster.

Steph#6413 wrote:

CA_Archimedes#9221 wrote:

Is this Bretonnian Heraldry mod yours did you say? 

That looks amazing, love all the different regions and heraldry represented there :)

Yes, that's my Bretonnian heraldry mod. I have the same for Empire. And Cathay/Kislev, but for them it's more colours than heraldry. However; Cathay and Kislev have banners. Empire and Bretonnia not yet (too much work at the moment). If you like it, try to nudge the dev team in the right direction to implement my ideas, it would greatly simplify it. 

Anyone willing to help: my discord Steph#8569

Wow, that's fantastic work! :) 

Really cool you spent that much time to make all those unique heraldries, can definitely tell you put a lot of work in on that. So many amazing modders in this community

It would be a dream come true if the devs could spare the time and resources to add banners and officers (and a few more animations like in total war Pharaoh) to the battle aspect of the game it would add a lot of flavour to the game. Even if they do it gradually instead of all at once.