In multiplayer foot characters are excessively resistant to damage due to knockdown rendering them invalid targets. This is particularly noticeable for mages who have less knockdown resistance as a rule. In theory this is supposed to be a detriment since it makes the characters less reliable in combat but in practice the result is mages tend to be excessively hard to kill because melee specialists aren't able to consistently launch attacks on them. 

The range for knockdown resistance on foot characters (found in the battle_entities_table under the label Knock Interrupts Ignore Chance) is quite broad, ranging from 20% generally seen on game 1 and 2 spellcasters, to 80% for characters like Tyrion and Sigvald. Notably characters added or updated in game 3 tend to have much higher knockdown resistance. Ice Witches have a 60% whereas Dark Elf and High Elf caster lords have 20%. The result at base is older casters are extremely tanky simply because they cannot be consistently hit.

However the issue is a bit broader then that. Older combat characters like the Wight King only have 40% knockback resistance (seemingly a common value in game 1 and 2), something that makes them quite easy to send flying. Chaos sorcerer heroes however have an updated value and are sitting at 80%, the maximum value seen for foot characters, making them far easier to kill in melee combat. As a side benefit against characters with high knockback resist in my limited testing you see less of the problematic "running beside" behavior since units can get the proper spacing to begin combat when they aren't constantly circling around a downed target. This isn't a cure all to targeting issues for large monsters and horse characters, but it improve their performance by a huge margin.

My suggestion, given the continued viability of chaos characters post update and the fact that game 3 casters are perfectly usable, is to set every foot characters knockback resistance to game 3 values. I'd recommend 80% for all characters just for ease, but if a gradient is viewed as desirable the lowest value for game 3 characters currently is 50% knockback resistance. This change addresses the unexpected tankiness of mages, makes character vs character interactions more consistent, and decreases instance of buggy interactions where big characters are unable to properly attack.

While this might seem like a daunting task, a surprising number of entities share the same battle entity profile, meaning changing a single battle entities value such as wh_main_infantry_standard_wizard_blood_dismembers or wh2_main_def_infantry_hero_blood_low_kb_resist can have far reaching effects.

Below I've attached 2 replays, one with Kholek fighting a Chaos Sorcerer Lord and one with Kholek fighting an Archmage. The TLDW if the chaos sorcerer lord at 80% knockdown dies in a bit under half the time because he stays upright and Kholek is able to land attacks more consistently. The other important thing to observe is the lack of a following beside behavior in the the chaos lord test, where Kholek struggles to even begin attacks against the Archmage once they begin retreating. Many of the spacing issues observed aren't the result of attack profiles being bugged, they're a result of the target not being consistently available to attack. 

80% knockdown resist.replay

20% knockdown resist.replay

As one final, food for thought point, I'd consider putting this change on some monsters and monster characters as well. Generally flopping on the ground makes units unreliable damage dealers and frustrates the person trying to kill the unit, which strikes me as undesirable.

Pocman#6295 wrote:

saweendra#3399 wrote:

On this note i want to bring back my old suggestion to i gave @CA_Ducky#2710 Back in the day. 

Before the knock down fix there was mechanic in the game where foot characters getting up speed was tied to their armor value. So heavier armor one got up slower 

Lower armored ones got up faster.

This was removed prior to the discovery of the knockdown bug since it made heavier armor characters shit.

I think this should make a comeback.

Why would you want a mechanic that makes armour shit to come back

Well its easier to follow.

Higher armor = higher mass assuming they ever take a look at mass inconsistencies. 

Lower armor = lower mass 

So higher armor = less likely to knock down

But slower to get up.

Lower mass = more likely to be get fucked 

But get up much faster to get hit more.

saweendra#3399 wrote:

On this note i want to bring back my old suggestion to i gave @CA_Ducky#2710 Back in the day. 

Before the knock down fix there was mechanic in the game where foot characters getting up speed was tied to their armor value. So heavier armor one got up slower 

Lower armored ones got up faster.

This was removed prior to the discovery of the knockdown bug since it made heavier armor characters poor.

I think this should make a comeback.

Given how many problems knockdown adds to combat as is I'd advise against reintroducing mechanics which make the system worse. Trying to positions oneself around a downed character significantly impairs thr attack rate of large entities, giving them more time to do that seems like to make the issue worse.

Additionally that change was made less for characters and more for elite infantry who were too easy to circumvent and ignore. I see no reason to nerf all elite infantry in such a roundabout manner.

its usually the unarmoured ones who are harder to hit anyway (foot mages, wulfhart and non-melee characters who tened to have little armour). many of the armoured already have high knockdown/back resist, such as dwarfs

saweendra#3399 wrote:

On this note i want to bring back my old suggestion to i gave @CA_Ducky#2710 Back in the day. 

Before the knock down fix there was mechanic in the game where foot characters getting up speed was tied to their armor value. So heavier armor one got up slower 

Lower armored ones got up faster.

This was removed prior to the discovery of the knockdown bug since it made heavier armor characters poor.

I think this should make a comeback.

Hi @saweendra#3399
Thanks for the feedback but I'm not the same CA_Ducky as before. I've just joined the new forum :)

Tell us about yourself CA_Ducky.  What projects are you working on?  What's your favorite game?  What's your favorite color?  What's the velocity of two swallows carrying a coconut?  What else would you like to tell us about yourself?

CA_Duck is still working for CA right?  I saw him posting on Discord the other day.