As the title suggests I felt it was worth making a post about furies. Ill try to keep this reasonably digestible but I feel there are a few angles to consider when finding the right place for this unit.

TL;DR Summary - Furies in their current state are too strong and their role as a cheap, high damage, high mobility, high flexibility unit is problematic.

Much of what I discuss is going to touch on multiplayer balance, though many of these issues are true for campaign as well.

A few early things to consider:

1. Furies were very weak until demons as a whole had their LD buffed and the damage of disintegrate tuned down
2. They were buffed again later to bring them to their current state
3. They are a vital tool that monogod factions need to address weaknesses (such as lack of missile units on NG/KH/SL roster)

In WH1 and WH2 flying infantry units were limited to units such as harpies, bats, carrion birds, etc. These units were primarily designed to be low MA, high MD units to distract and control. They could kill many vulnerable missile units if left alone for an extended period, but they were mainly used to help bog down key pieces to allow those factions space to deal with them some other way. Flying infantry can rear charge an enemy unit to help break their LD, they can dive cavalry to break their charge (and bog them down through an inefficient fight on most  cav units, denying their CB), they can trade upward into units who dont kill them efficiently like giant slayers, they can escort/chase fleeing units/lord off of the battlefield, they pick when and what to engage and can easily disengage (unless its another flying unit, something we will come back to)

All of these strengths make flying infantry extremely versatile. One thing that each of these units have in common is that they arent kill machines, they are used as tactical pieces to control the fight.

Furies do all of these things but are also absolute blenders that kill everything.

Furies absolutely destroy nearly everything you send them against. They may not win against elite infantry or heavy Cav in a 1-on-1, but for their value and cost they punch upwards into basically any unit you send them at. They are a one-size-fits all solution to way too many situations. Furies will always get the charge on a non-flying unit and always have the option to dictate when they will engage as well as disengaging easily.

In the past the counter to them was typically to rear charge them with cavalry when they descended on a unit. Because of their LD buffs this is no longer a realistic solution. Even if you have your finger on the trigger and charge them the second they land to attack they shred their target unit before they crumble. Even units like Quarellers with high armor and MD (relative to most cheap missiles) get absolutely destroyed by them before they can be countered. Another ranged unit in reserve cant shoot and kill furies fast enough to alter the outcome of their dive target. It takes multiple units ready to defend against one fury, let alone multiple furies all attacking at once. These units are built like flying speedy glass cannons without the glass (Except against perhaps anti-infantry cav with magic damage, a very limited unit type). If they can shred a unit with such flexibility and ease of use then they also need to crumble easily to their counters (like they did before, when the unit was balanced)

Furies dominate airspace. In some ways thats ok, they should be threatening in the air. Most monogod factions dont have the missile pressure to threaten air-squads and need units who can do that. The problem is that in addition to all of the other things furies can do they also trivialize all air units that arent massive SEM lords (who they can still distract very well). Battles between monogod factions boil down to controlling the airspace by spamming all possible fury units at the enemy furies. Whoever brought more wins, or no one wins because they all killed each other.

Current furies, in the multiplayer space, are a one-size-fits all unit that you generally take as many as you can (or close to) in every single matchup. Furies are a quick and cheap answer to nearly every issue (in Domination). They should be a good unit but they need to be a tool for some situations, not a click-and-forget solution for 9 out of 10 of the threats you have to deal with. When they do crumble they are back in the reinforcement pool so fast that it feels like you are constantly contending with an endless stream of furies, all game, every game. They dominate the meta and you are sure to have to deal with the maximum number of them your opponent can manage to summon over the course of a game. Yes, they dont provide cap weight, but that doesnt matter if they enable to you annihilate the opponents capture pieces entirely.

In campaign, unless the enemy AI just yeets them into your line without support, they will blender your ranged before you can adequately respond to them. Even if you win, even if you absolutely destroy the AI, you are at high risk of losing key pieces just because of how heavily furies will shred whatever they touch.

Solution: Reduce their LD. In MP consider increasing their cost by 50. And, in my opinion, dont make units like this in the future. Crowmen already fall very close to these same issues. Both of these units outclass their peers, such as harpies, by such a ludicrous degree that by comparison harpies are nearly useless (other than the RoR, which costs 150 more and loses to furies by the way). I would rather see their MA and MD evened out to be less offensively biased. Its good they can kill things but with their heavily stated MA, high CB, and good WS they destroy things much too quickly.

Final disclaimer: Look, if youre a big fury stan and you love these units thats great. They shouldn't be nearly useless like they were at one point. They should be good in a particular role, not so oppressive that they dominate everything they touch. Tone them down, give them a niche, let them excel in one space.

yeah i think the LD buff was unnecessary, and +50 on top is fair. its very funny, they have better stats than hellstriders (in serious need of buffs) and are cheaper

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Revari#6144 wrote:

As the title suggests I felt it was worth making a post about furies. Ill try to keep this reasonably digestible but I feel there are a few angles to consider when finding the right place for this unit.

TL;DR Summary - Furies in their current state are too strong and their role as a cheap, high damage, high mobility, high flexibility unit is problematic.

Much of what I discuss is going to touch on multiplayer balance, though many of these issues are true for campaign as well.

A few early things to consider:

1. Furies were very weak until demons as a whole had their LD buffed and the damage of disintegrate tuned down
2. They were buffed again later to bring them to their current state
3. They are a vital tool that monogod factions need to address weaknesses (such as lack of missile units on NG/KH/SL roster)

In WH1 and WH2 flying infantry units were limited to units such as harpies, bats, carrion birds, etc. These units were primarily designed to be low MA, high MD units to distract and control. They could kill many vulnerable missile units if left alone for an extended period, but they were mainly used to help bog down key pieces to allow those factions space to deal with them some other way. Flying infantry can rear charge an enemy unit to help break their LD, they can dive cavalry to break their charge (and bog them down through an inefficient fight on most  cav units, denying their CB), they can trade upward into units who dont kill them efficiently like giant slayers, they can escort/chase fleeing units/lord off of the battlefield, they pick when and what to engage and can easily disengage (unless its another flying unit, something we will come back to)

All of these strengths make flying infantry extremely versatile. One thing that each of these units have in common is that they arent kill machines, they are used as tactical pieces to control the fight.

Furies do all of these things but are also absolute blenders that kill everything.

Furies absolutely destroy nearly everything you send them against. They may not win against elite infantry or heavy Cav in a 1-on-1, but for their value and cost they punch upwards into basically any unit you send them at. They are a one-size-fits all solution to way too many situations. Furies will always get the charge on a non-flying unit and always have the option to dictate when they will engage as well as disengaging easily.

In the past the counter to them was typically to rear charge them with cavalry when they descended on a unit. Because of their LD buffs this is no longer a realistic solution. Even if you have your finger on the trigger and charge them the second they land to attack they shred their target unit before they crumble. Even units like Quarellers with high armor and MD (relative to most cheap missiles) get absolutely destroyed by them before they can be countered. Another ranged unit in reserve cant shoot and kill furies fast enough to alter the outcome of their dive target. It takes multiple units ready to defend against one fury, let alone multiple furies all attacking at once. These units are built like flying speedy glass cannons without the glass (Except against perhaps anti-infantry cav with magic damage, a very limited unit type). If they can shred a unit with such flexibility and ease of use then they also need to crumble easily to their counters (like they did before, when the unit was balanced)

Furies dominate airspace. In some ways thats ok, they should be threatening in the air. Most monogod factions dont have the missile pressure to threaten air-squads and need units who can do that. The problem is that in addition to all of the other things furies can do they also trivialize all air units that arent massive SEM lords (who they can still distract very well). Battles between monogod factions boil down to controlling the airspace by spamming all possible fury units at the enemy furies. Whoever brought more wins, or no one wins because they all killed each other.

Current furies, in the multiplayer space, are a one-size-fits all unit that you generally take as many as you can (or close to) in every single matchup. Furies are a quick and cheap answer to nearly every issue (in Domination). They should be a good unit but they need to be a tool for some situations, not a click-and-forget solution for 9 out of 10 of the threats you have to deal with. When they do crumble they are back in the reinforcement pool so fast that it feels like you are constantly contending with an endless stream of furies, all game, every game. They dominate the meta and you are sure to have to deal with the maximum number of them your opponent can manage to summon over the course of a game. Yes, they dont provide cap weight, but that doesnt matter if they enable to you annihilate the opponents capture pieces entirely.

In campaign, unless the enemy AI just yeets them into your line without support, they will blender your ranged before you can adequately respond to them. Even if you win, even if you absolutely destroy the AI, you are at high risk of losing key pieces just because of how heavily furies will shred whatever they touch.

Solution: Reduce their LD. In MP consider increasing their cost by 50. And, in my opinion, dont make units like this in the future. Crowmen already fall very close to these same issues. Both of these units outclass their peers, such as harpies, by such a ludicrous degree that by comparison harpies are nearly useless (other than the RoR, which costs 150 more and loses to furies by the way). I would rather see their MA and MD evened out to be less offensively biased. Its good they can kill things but with their heavily stated MA, high CB, and good WS they destroy things much too quickly.

Final disclaimer: Look, if youre a big fury stan and you love these units thats great. They shouldn't be nearly useless like they were at one point. They should be good in a particular role, not so oppressive that they dominate everything they touch. Tone them down, give them a niche, let them excel in one space.

While I would prefer CA to have reduced instability damage rather than boost LD I'd be concerned that lowering LD again will push the units back into the terrible space they were in prior to the buff. They often struggled to meaningfully contribute and were extremely easy to remove. I'd suggest instead hitting the units health, after the entity changes they have significantly more health than comparable units like crowmen (660 extra health, or 11 per entity). I'd rather target their survivability in this manner which in addition to a cost increase (+50 seems solid), I'd also consider lowering their speed somewhat given they're much, much faster than harpies and crowmen which makes it harder to react to the unit in a timely manner.

The monogod factions have extremely limited rosters as well as being extremely skewed towards melee. Furies being a melee presence is necessary for the factions to function well given their win rates ping pong pretty significantly based on their melee skirmish viability (Slaanesh mobility being a clear example where a small number of units can carry the faction).