Increase Frost Wyrm mass from 3500 -> 5000

Frost Wyrms are roughly the same size if not bigger than War Hydras or Stegadons yet have only 3500 mass vs the 5000 of those two monsters. There has been a lot of commentary about their performance but in my experience they work fine with the one exception that they can struggle to pull through smaller units. Increasing their mass to the same level as those of similar sized monsters would help address this.

Completely agree. They don't offer anything that makes up for having less mass.

Mass alone isn't enough I think. The model and animations seem to be based on the Cathay dragon forms, which are notoriously bad at hitting things in melee and getting hit. Although the frost wyrm doesn't seem to inherit the defensive jankiness and is just plain bad at attacking. The model need some proper overview on the collision checks.

hitbox is way too long, doesnt have a proper role in the roster, doesnt have anything special about it. I would make it antilarge, so it would become a bit like the carnosaur in function. increase its mass, defence and make its hitbox shorter

Loupi#8512 wrote:

hitbox is way too long, doesnt have a proper role in the roster, doesnt have anything special about it. I would make it antilarge, so it would become a bit like the carnosaur in function. increase its mass, defence and make its hitbox shorter

its animations suck , for that role. ideally incarnate would be the bvL varient losing his mortis

and the mortis should go to this.

saweendra#3399 wrote:

Loupi#8512 wrote:

hitbox is way too long, doesnt have a proper role in the roster, doesnt have anything special about it. I would make it antilarge, so it would become a bit like the carnosaur in function. increase its mass, defence and make its hitbox shorter

its animations suck , for that role. ideally incarnate would be the bvL varient losing his mortis

and the mortis should go to this.

its animations dont suck, they hit large units just fine once you hit fix the hitbox, and it being a relatively fast monster with frostbite makes it very useful as an antilarge monster for hunting other monsters or cav

Loupi#8512 wrote:

saweendra#3399 wrote:

Loupi#8512 wrote:

hitbox is way too long, doesnt have a proper role in the roster, doesnt have anything special about it. I would make it antilarge, so it would become a bit like the carnosaur in function. increase its mass, defence and make its hitbox shorter

its animations suck , for that role. ideally incarnate would be the bvL varient losing his mortis

and the mortis should go to this.

its animations dont suck, they hit large units just fine once you hit fix the hitbox, and it being a relatively fast monster with frostbite makes it very useful as an antilarge monster for hunting other monsters or cav

do you have it fixed on your mod? 

yup

Loupi#8512 wrote:

yup

will give it shot when i have the chance. 

I read somewhere ca acknowledge the wyrm is bugged and will fix with tod... can someone from ca confirm this? 

Pretty sure it was a screenshot on here or steam. 

The unit doesn't need mass... the animations are bugged, it doesn't do any damage... it loses to ranged marauders in melee... its fundamentally broken. 

I agree with @Loupi#8512 that the hit box is most likely the issue not the animations. In my experience it hits infantry and large SEM's just fine. In fact if it wasn't for all the healing it would actually beat a War Hydra in a duel on the live patch. However it has an extremely hard time hitting smaller SEM's such as the Mutant Rat Ogre.

On a charge I've had a Frost Wyrm deal 2000 damage and kill 30 models against a unit like Black Ark Corsairs. Whether it's combat issues are animation or hit box related it's mass is still a problem because it has a large hit box and it's mass is insufficient to allow it to push through infantry the way a monster it's size should.

I'm not against a BvL but don't see the need as I see it's role as a fast general purpose hit and run monster whereas Kislev's other two SEM's are more grinding units.

Just want to congratulate CA on the change to this unit. I finished a Katarin campaign and I found Frost Wyrm to be useful if not world a beater. Reducing the size of their model to better match their mass lets them push through infantry well so they can cycle charge and escape situations they couldn't before.

You want a low-mass SEM, try the Varghulf!  It's basically a giant hairball filled with helium and happy thoughts.  I've seen a troll -a unit 1/3 its size- repeatedly knock it down just by bumping into it; the troll wasn't even charging or attacking!