torak8988#3885 wrote:

My idea of how I'd like it to be is very simple.

Just take the warhammer 3 map, replace the map with a galaxy map and replace the settlements with planets.

And preferably no space navy, as space navies are basically never brought up in 40k, all the focus is on the land armies, and for good reason. 

So armies can move around freely around the galaxy, and when they fight one another, they fight on a planet map, same as island battles.

With regions and provinces so that managing the empire can be done easily and swiftly, as they bundle like 4 settlements in one UI.

No offence, but Space navies are brought up a lot. They have they own game system. A game system which also got 2 PC games in recent years.

I see no advantage of your suggestion, except it requires no additional work on CA part.

In terms of Immersion it is nonsense and it robs a lot of potential great Gameplay opportunities. 

torak8988#3885 wrote:

My idea of how I'd like it to be is very simple.

Just take the warhammer 3 map, replace the map with a galaxy map and replace the settlements with planets.

And preferably no space navy, as space navies are basically never brought up in 40k, all the focus is on the land armies, and for good reason. 

So armies can move around freely around the galaxy, and when they fight one another, they fight on a planet map, same as island battles.

With regions and provinces so that managing the empire can be done easily and swiftly, as they bundle like 4 settlements in one UI.

Space warhammer with no space fleet battles!? That would be a tragedy. That would probably be its selling point since no other total wars' have done it before.

torak8988#3885 wrote:

My idea of how I'd like it to be is very simple.

Just take the warhammer 3 map, replace the map with a galaxy map and replace the settlements with planets.

And preferably no space navy, as space navies are basically never brought up in 40k, all the focus is on the land armies, and for good reason. 

So armies can move around freely around the galaxy, and when they fight one another, they fight on a planet map, same as island battles.

With regions and provinces so that managing the empire can be done easily and swiftly, as they bundle like 4 settlements in one UI.

Battlefleet Gothic: Armada 2 and there is a TT game based on ship battles.

torak8988#3885 wrote:

People seem to forget that warhammer 40k is a boardgame played on the planets surface, if space navies becomes a thing, there will be less opportunities for land battles.

And I play tabletop warhammer 40k for the cool signature land units. There is a good reason why games workshop doesn't sell warhammer 40k space navies on their site.

And precisely because it requires CA less work to realise means they have more time to make content for all of our favourite factions. 

And I don't want to be harsh, but Gothic armada wasn't exactly an interesting game, it felt very simple and very arcade like, the same problem haunts total war naval battles.

They could do it sure, but that'll require a ton of testing in the hope of making naval battles fun, complex and enjoyable.

And if they want to make naval battles, they could better make it a chessboard turnbased game, as that's the only battle type total war hasn't explored yet that would allow naval battles to have more complexity and uniqueness. Think of Advance wars or Xcom, with ships having a certain amount of hexes as striking range, movement hexes and abilities they can cast during their turn.

Unless they play us all for fools and they put warhammer 40k on a single planet, only add "space marines" as a single faction, give them a variety of custom paint job options to simulate other chapters, and then call it a day.

That would severely sadden my day. No galaxy, no unique chapter mechanics, just a rushed one-game, no sequel style game.

I think you’re forgetting that not everyone is you and there is a fleet element to the TT game and it’s also a massive part of the lore. If you don’t like fleet battles then you auto resolve.

torak8988#3885 wrote:

People seem to forget that warhammer 40k is a boardgame played on the planets surface, if space navies becomes a thing, there will be less opportunities for land battles.

And I play tabletop warhammer 40k for the cool signature land units. There is a good reason why games workshop doesn't sell warhammer 40k space navies on their site.

And precisely because it requires CA less work to realise means they have more time to make content for all of our favourite factions. 

Are you sure you play the TT? Because you often seem to do you research by Browsing the GW shop, instead of referencing the codex in question. And seem to have overall limited knowledge about 40k, if the GW Shop doesn't reference it.

And sure, in theory not making navies can increase budget for land units. But it also could mean that the lack of appeal, because "space land battles" look pretty silly for many (perhaps), the game sells less and hence less money is viable to make DLC.

 It also robs the different races an area for diverse gameplay.

A reason for the Plantefall battles I suppose, is that it give an aspect where the different races can show off how different they are.

And I don't want to be harsh, but Gothic armada wasn't exactly an interesting game, it felt very simple and very arcade like, the same problem haunts total war naval battles.

They could do it sure, but that'll require a ton of testing in the hope of making naval battles fun, complex and enjoyable.

And if they want to make naval battles, they could better make it a chessboard turnbased game, as that's the only battle type total war hasn't explored yet that would allow naval battles to have more complexity and uniqueness. Think of Advance wars or Xcom, with ships having a certain amount of hexes as striking range, movement hexes and abilities they can cast during their turn.

So you played Gothic armada but say that Space battles weren't references in 40K? I mean you know that marines traditionally reference to the infantry station on ships for boarding other ships right? What do you think Space Marines do?

And for a real time tactic game, I found it fairly complex. Moral, Boarding, armor, hull, shields, environment. Different mission types. Its space battles are arguable more complex then TW battles. Not sure why you need to make it turn base.

Unless they play us all for fools and they put warhammer 40k on a single planet, only add "space marines" as a single faction, give them a variety of custom paint job options to simulate other chapters, and then call it a day.

That would severely sadden my day. No galaxy, no unique chapter mechanics, just a rushed one-game, no sequel style game.

Yeah that would be the worst option. On that we agree.

torak8988#3885 wrote:

I understand where you guys are coming from. You want space battles, yes, I can understand that.

But from my point of view as a long-time total war fan, CA has an incredibly bad track record when it comes to naval battles.

And the last thing I want, is the next game to have another Empire total war disaster, where they spend so much resources on developing naval battles that the rest of the game falls flat on its face.

If total war does space battles well, that’s great and good. But considering space navies control the first line of defense, land armies, the thing 40k is known for will become a secondary priority. I hope you guys understand how that works. If I stick all my funds in the greatest space navy there is, it never matters how many cool land units I can deploy, I only need a sufficient amount to take poorly defended settlements.

By introducing a space navy, you open the possibility of making land armies obsolete, as everyone will divert everything into making the best space navy. Building one army of marine raiders to take small cities until the enemy is so economically weakened that they can’t field large armies or navies anymore.

But I think looking at games workshops history with their IP’s I fear the worst. Like you guys highlight, making an galaxy game does raise questions about space navies, and total war has a ton of experience with standard world maps, where they can add complex terrain features. 

I thus think that the upcoming total war 40k hinted as called “project Juno”, with hinted factions “Space marines, Chaos and Greenskins” and a “total war world war one” title right after will be a single planet setting with generic 40k races that you have the option of giving a thematic paintjob. 

I’ve been here since Shogun 1 and I’m fully aware of the history of the series. However, the fact remains that space battles are different to ship battles and games like Battle Gothic Armada, show this type of game can exist. There may also be room for an existing game type in 40K called Boarding Patrol.

We all have different tastes and takes but personally, I wouldn’t write off space battles just yet.

I here since M1. personally I think that naval battles were better then people give them credit for.

Depends of course on the title. Empires Naval battles are probably better then Rome 2 and Shogun 2 battles (I have a soft spot for FotS).

But overall they defiantly could work.

And as for 40k: Battleflett Gothic Armada 1&2 prove they can work.

And if we want to conquer the 40k Universe, not just one Planet, we need to get there.

Maybe I should do a separate Thread on the topic.

This Thread is suppose about the idea that:

 Planet don't have just 1 Battle where you conquer or don't conquer them

That "Planetfall" is its own type of Battle.

That the units viable depends on your ability to land them, hence Technology, Skills ect, can depend what you can land.

That conquering space ports in order to bring Invasion forces in should be a feature.

Any thoughs about that?

I think there could be a number of key sites based on the use and size of the planet. The space port city would of course be the first site followed by whatever the planet has.

I imagine there’s been a lot of thought out into this one, how smoothly you go from planet fall into land battles could decide how fun the game is up to a point.

Well the proposal kinda assume that you would have to do it at least once per planet (unless you race as alternatives to it, Webgates, Clutist or whatever) and after that you can land additional armies either by additional planetfall or by Landing them in already conquered zones.

I think everyone is ignoring the balance issue

If I spend all my money on the biggest navy possible, it doesn't matter anymore if I have a land army, I only need one to "island hop" all the weak undefended settlements and lock the enemy within their own settlements.

Meaning warhammer 40k, the game that revolves mainly around land battles and epic land units, becomes useless if I have a better space navy.

Therefore, either CA is likely going to go for a plannet map, but that automatically also means there won't be any unique and cool chapters, because all factions in the 40k galaxy don't all visit one planet.

Or its going to "island battles" all the way, which as you know, I'm totally fine with, and more a supporter of, as I love 40k for the land units and vast galaxy.

I will make a new thread to talk about Space Battles or not.