Please put the cap for lethality at 25% max for melee units and at most 5% for ranged units as the default setting. The current default values not only speed up battles way too much, they also make ranged units way too powerful and I really don't like having ultra-short anti-climactic battles in this game after the base game allowed me to have actual frontlines again.
Overpowered ranged units have already ruined Warhammer's battles (among other things), don't let them ruin these battles too.
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lethality certainly needs to be fixed but I don't think it should be reduced like this. It's a good integration just needs to be tidied up a bit.
for me rather the stats of the armor and the excessive power of the cavalry need to be reviewed urgently
Ranged unit have been buffed in general for whatever reason. Even with lethality switched off, a couple volleys at max range will cause undue amounts of damage even to heavily protected units. I guess the new stances for whatever reason have stacking damage values because plunging max-range shots shouldn't actually be that strong.
I hate it, it feels like the garbage battles from Warhammer 2 again which were completely ruined by making ranged units so strong.
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I played 4 hours of Mycenae last night, who don't even have good ranged units, and was absolutely shredding everything with javelins and low tier archers.
I even restarted and turned lethality off but ranged damage still seemed disproportionately high. granted I'm in the early game, but ranged seems incredible, and much changed from the original Pharaoh.
As a side note, standing and bracing seemed markedly worse than charging, even when the unit was a designated defender class. Needs more testing though.
Played a couple of battles today and at max range low tier ranged units were shredding anything with decent armor and a shield even whilst hitting them head on. Ranged needs a serious nerf.
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Thanks for this valuable feedback! Lethality is naturally quite a major change in shaking up battle balancing, and we're going to be utilising feedback like this to help shape how effectively different types of units perform in a future update. As with all balance changes we'll not be making any snap decisions on this without weighing up the situation to ensure we can find the right spot.
Something does feel off for sure, even with Lethality disabled ranged units are shredding 100 armour 75% block chance melee units. Is armour functioning correctly? Is block chance? I need to test some more but I wouldn't be surprised if something was bugged here.
Walled siege battles are now utterly unplayable thanks to wall towers and any ranged unit on the walls obliterating whatever dares come close to the walls. That means being the attacker is now an endless exercise in frustration and being the defender means you are practically invincible.
Very unsatisfied with this state of affairs.
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I ABSOLUTELY HATE lethality. Pharaoh did something great, after many years, getting rid of the AWFUL warhammer-style meta. In original Pharaoh melee units were the core and optimal thing to invest in and rely on with archers being a useful support and skirmish. Now we are back to the warhammer high elf checkerboard archer stupidity and cheap frontline fodder. Even AI is acting ridiculous building their armies around lethality (seemingly) and stacks them with javelins and chariots only in case of Greeks.
I hate lethality because it totally wrecked the cool combat triangle, made melee units useless, battles feel just bad now with missile spam and tactics/manouvers are now much more limited due to reduced effectiveness of melee: flankers and chargers; there is only one optimal way to play as ranged units replaced chargers and flankers completely.
"You can just turn off lethality." No; if you turn off lethality AI still thinks lethality is a thing and you're losing out on buffs and content that's designed around lethality like boons from the gods.
Please, if you want to keep the lethality in instead of reversing to previous state of affairs, at least make the game melee dominant as it used to be. Chargers and Flankers should have their lethality superior to ranged units, especially when fulfilling their roles and attacking from flanks and charging. Right now ranged units have the mobility to position themselves in the flanks and killing power to obliterate everything with less risk than a melee units have. We've had enough archer-spam moba-like total war games.
Conspiracy theory: Sophia was ordered by the main studio to make the game more like warhammer to get those players in.
A decent band aid fix is the "Better Shields" mod on the workshop. Gives roughly +20% block chance to shields across the board. Obviously unshielded and chariots are still getting dunked on but they have other uses. Getting shot in the back is still the same as vanilla.
I think chariots should maybe be immune to models getting instant killed, or maybe have multiple "wounds" so they don't instantly explode a few models on the charge?
"if you turn off lethality AI still thinks lethality is a thing and you're losing out on buffs and content that's designed around lethality like boons from the gods. " That's a pity.
Pace of total war battles is idiotic with the lethality mechanic. We need something to reduce the units insane speed for concluding to an overall slower pace, instead of the lethality that actually make battles insanely fast and a awful clickfest. I don't consider total war games as battles simulator anymore. CA, you games needs slower battles !
I'd like to precise that the lethality mechanic could fit in battles if there were already much slower than actually.
I wonder if there's an issue with shields and armor. It may be something as simple as lethality getting calculated before shield block gets taken into account, ditto for armor. If lethality is just completely ignoring shields and/or armor, that's going to make it far more powerful than intended.
I think it's worth taking a very close look at the mechanics to make sure they're working correctly. Lethality chance certainly shouldn't get calculated before shield block. And it should probably be discounted by AP ratio against an armored target - so that a unit with weak AP has a much lower chance of getting a lethality against an armored taret.
All that said, I think javelins need a balance pass in any case. They are extremely deadly right now, with high AP damage combined with insanely high lethality and a high model count. They just vaporize anything that they can get in range of. Bows and slingers also feel quite dangerous, but only against unarmored targets.
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