The Case for Inclusion

The game covers the historic period from the reign of Merneptah (1213-1203 BCE) to Rameses III (1186–1155 BC). As an historic title, I hope CA include the nation of Israel / Hebrew ('Habiru' / 'Apiru'). They fought against Mernaptah, were well established in the eastern mountains of Palestine / Jordan during this period and listed amongst nations.

According to archeology, a signficant group of HABIRU (Social derogatory term for 'slave', 'rebel', 'foreigner') called the HEBREW (Descriptive term for 'Nomadic Semite', 'foreigner' / 'one from across the river') appeared in the mountains of eastern Canaan bewteen 1400 and 1350 BCE, 150+ years before the period of the game (eg. Egyptian Pharoahs Amenohotep III, Set II and Merneptah fought them, to contain them in those mountains. The "Armarna letters" (mid-14th C BCE) report them coming from the eastern mountains to fight against the Canaanite City States. These Habiru / Hebrew of the hills of Canaan were known in the game period as ... ISRAEL

MERNEPTAH STELE 1204 BCE 

3M Black Granite Stele, Cairo Museum

​"ISRAEL IS LAID WASTE, ITS SEED IS NO MORE" - PHAROAH MERNEPTAH, 1204 BCE

Pharoah Merneptah calls Israel one of the ​​"NINE BOWS" of foreign power which he contended with.

​The Merneptah Stele uses the term 'People' / 'Nation' rather than stating a city / capital or area. This suggests the following;

• Israel was a signifcant entity during the period, worthy of Pharoah Merneptah bragging about their alleged defeat.
• Israel was a relatively well known entity.
• Israel were likely usurpers to an area (Canaan) that Egypt regarded it's own.

​Conservative depiction of terroritory based on Archeology. With a capital in Shechem and Jerusalem remaining an independant Canaanite outlyer

Both Armarna letters and material culture suggest much wider conquest. 

Evidence suggests the arrival of the Hebrews in Eastern Canaan (called Israel in the game's period) at least 150 years prior the period of the game (late 13th / early 12th Century BCE)

​BERLIN PESTAL RELIEF

​AM 21687, Berlin Museum - 1400-1330 BCE 18th Dynasty 

Egyptian victory over Gaza, Canaan and ISRAEL

The cartouche suggests Israel was present in the HIGHLANDS / "HILLS". 

This correlates with the mention of a signifcant body of people called the Habiru / Hebrew in the regioin at the time.

​AMENHOTEP III VICTORY INSCRIPTION

Temple of Soleb, Sudan

"Land of the Nomads who worship YAWEH"

Amenhotep III (reign: 1391-1353 BCE) victory inscription eastern Canaan

"His majesty was in the foreign country of the Retenu (Canaan) on his fourteenth campaign of victory and he fought with them (Nomads / Hebrews) IN THE HILL COUNTRY"

Despite the boasts, Amenhotep's campaign appears to have been nothing more than a punitive raid with no lasting impact. On his death, the Habiru / Hebrew ran riot throughout Canaan. Amenhotep's  successor Akenaten did little to stem the onslaught:

​AMARNA LETTERS - 1350s to 1330s BCE

We know the Habiru threat came from the eastern mountians and spread west, north and south. Gezer was one of the last areas impacted

AMARNA LETTER EA 271: "THE POWER OF THE 'HABIRU"

"Say to the king (Pharoah), my lord, my god, my Sun: Message of Milkilu (Canaanite Ruler of Gezer), your servant, the dirt at your feet. I fall at the feet of the king, my Lord, 7 times and 7 times. May the king, my lord, know that the war against me and against Šuwardata (Canaanite Ruler of Jerusalem) is severe. So may the king, my lord, save his land from the power of the HABIRU. O[th]erwise, may the king, my lord, send chariots to fetch us, lest they kill us. Moreover, may the king, my lord, ask Yanhamu, his servant, about what is being done in his land."

AMARNA LETTER EA 292: "LIKE A PLOT HELD IN PLEDGE

"Say to the king, my lord, my god, my Sun: Message of Adda-danu (Ruler of Gezer) your servant, the dirt at your feet. I fall at the feet of the king, my lord,  my god, my Sun, 7 times and 7 times.  I looked this way, and I looked that way, and there was no light.  Then I looked towards the king, my lord, and there was light.  I have heard the orders that the king, my lord, wrote to his servant,  “Guard your commissioner, and guard the cities of the king, your lord."  I do indeed guard, and I do indeed obey the orders of the king, my lord, day and night.  May the king, my lord, be informed about his servant.  There being A FIERCE WAR BEING WAGED (by HABIRU) AGAINST ME FROM THE MOUNTAINS.

​HEBREW CURSE (DEFIXO) TABLETS

MOUNT EBAL, Israel - 1350 BCE

Written in ancient HEBREW

Discovered at non-Canaanite religious site - uncut stone altar with evidence of Kosher sacrifice

Dated 1400 - 1250 BCE, pottery dated to 14th C BCE / Amarna period

"Cursed, cursed, cursed — cursed by the El (god called) YAWEH

You (Ruler of Jerusalem, possibly Canaanite King Abdi-Heba) will die cursed

Cursed you will surely die

Cursed by Yaweh —cursed, cursed, cursed"

NB: "EL" is the Canaanite word for "god" and not a specific deity

Universität Mainz, Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic, University of Haifa - Published: 12 May 2023

​JUST FOR CONTEXT:

"It shall come about, when the Lord your God (Yaweh) brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, that you shall place the blessing on Mount Gerizim, and the curse upon MOUNT EBAL" - Deuteronomy 11:29

"Then Joshua built on MOUNT EBAL an altar to the Lord (Yaweh), the God of Israel, as Moses the servant of the Lord had commanded the Israelites. He built it according to what is written in the Book of the Law of Moses—an altar of uncut stones" - Joshua 8:30-31

​HEBREW related but different to CANAANITE

For example:

ריִע “city” (Hebrew) = תרק (Canaanite)

בָהָז “gold” (Hebrew) =  ץרח (Canaanite)

רוֹשׁ “bull, ox” (Hebrew) = ףלא (Canaanite)

ה-י-ה “be” (Hebrew) =  ן-ו-כ (Canaanite)

אֹל “no, not” (Hebrew) =  לב (Canaanite)

NB: This is because the Hebrews, Canaanites, Edomites, Moabites and Amonites were all decendants of the Western Semitic Amorites who had briefly ruled the Levant several hundred years prior the period. These later groups had well and truly established their own identities by the late 13th C BCE.

​

AMARNA LETTER EA 299: "A PLEA FOR HELP"

"To the king (Pharoah), my lord, my god, the Sun, the Sun from the sky: Message of Yapahu, the ruler of Gazru (Gezer), your servant, the dirt at your feet, the groom of your horses. Truly I fall at the feet of the king, my lord, my god, my Sun, the Sun from the sky, 7 times and 7 times, on the stomach and on the back. I have listened to the words of the messenger of the king, my lord, very carefully. May the king, my lord, the Sun from the sky, take thought for his land. Since the HABIRU are stronger than we, may the king, my lord, give me his help,....and may the king, my lord, get me away from the Habiru lest the HABIRU destroy us" 

 NB: Gezer appears to have 3 different Canaanite Rulers in a 50 year period. This was the last we hear from Gezer.

AMARNA LETTER EA 100: "THE CITY OF IRQATA TO THE KING (PHAROAH)"

"To the king (Pharaoh), our lord: Message from Irqata (City Southern Lebanon) and its elders. We fall at the feet of the king, our lord, 7 times and 7 times. To our lord, the Sun: Message from Irqata. May the heart of the king, our lord, know that we guard Irqata for him. When the king, our lord, sent DUMU-Bi-Ha-A, he said to us, "Message of the king: Guard Irqata!". Irqata seeks loyalty to the king. As to silver having been given to Subaru May you know the mind of Irqata! When a tablet from the king arrived (saying) to raid the land that the HABIRU had taken from the king, they (HABIRU) waged war with us, against our lord. Truly we are guarding the land. May the king, our lord, heed the words of his loyal servants. May he grant a gift to his servant(s) so our enemies will see this and eat dirt. May the breath of the king not depart from us. We shall keep the city gate barred until the breath of the king. Severe is the war against us — terrible, terrible.." 

AMARNA LETTER EA 286: "A THRONE GRANTED, NOT INHERITED" 

Say to the king (Pharoah), my lord: Message of Abdi-Heba (Canaanite King of Jerusalem), your servant. I fall at the feet of my lord, the king,7 times and 7 times. What have I done to the king, my lord? They denounce me before the king, my lord, "Abdi-Heba has rebelled against the king, his lord." I am slandered before the king, my lord. Because I say, "Lost are the lands of the king, my lord," accordingly I am slandered before the king, my lord. May the king, my lord, know that though the king, my lord stationed a garrison here, Yanhamu (Egyptian Commissioner) has taken it away. All the lands of the king, my lord, have deserted. For my part, I say, "I would go in to the king, my lord, and visit the king, my lord," but the war against me (by HABIRU) is severe, and so I am not able to go in to the king, my lord Whenever the commissioners have come out, I would say to them, "Lost are the lands of the king", but they did not listen to me. Lost are all the rulers; there is not a ruler remaining to the king, my lord. The king has no lands. The HABIRU have plundered all the lands of the king. Lost, lost are all the lands of the king, my lord!"

BETH-SHAN STELE

 SETI I, 1290–1279 BC, Rockefeller Archaeological Museum, East Jerusalem

"The HABIRU of Mount Yarmuta (Southern Galilee / same area as Mount Ebal / above) did arise and attack the Retenu (Canaanites) of Rehem. Then his majesty said, "How can these wretched Asiatics (HABIRU) dare wage war. Then his majesty commanded a section of his infantry and his numerous chariotry to turned their faces toward (march into) the foreign country of Djahi (Coastal Canaan). The space of two days elapsed, and they (Egyptian Forces) returned in triumph from the country Yarmuta, carrying plunder and captives"

​

​BUBASTITE PORTAL

Karnak Temple, Egypt

Victory inscription over "The HIGHLANDS of (King) David", rings 105 & 106 - Pharoah Shoshenq I, 10th C BCE

MESHA STELE

​Louvre, Paris France

"I am Mesha, son of Chemosh-yt, king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father reigned over Moab thirty years, and I have reigned after my father. And I have built this sanctuary for Chemosh (diety) in Karchah, a sanctuary of salvation, for he saved me from all aggressors, and made me look upon all mine enemies with contempt.

Omri was king of ISRAEL, and oppressed Moab, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions. His son succeeded him, and he also said, I will oppress Moab. In my days he said, Let us go, and I will see my desire upon him and his house, and ISRAEL said, I shall destroy it for ever. Now Omri took the land of Madeba (Jordan), and occupied it in his day, and in the days of his son, forty years. And Chemosh had mercy on it in my time. And I built Baal-meon and made therein the ditch, and I built Kiriathaim."

​And the men of Gad (Israeli tribe East of Jordan) dwelled in the country of Ataroth from ancient times, and the king of ISRAEL fortified Ataroth. I assaulted the wall and captured it, and killed all the warriors of the city for the well-pleasing of Chemosh and Moab, and I removed from it all the spoil, and offered it before Chemosh in Kirjath; and I placed therein the men of Siran, and the men of Mochrath. And Chemosh said to me, Go take Nebo against ISRAEL, and I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of day till noon, and I took it: and I killed in all seven thousand men...women and young girls, for I devoted (sacrificed) them to Ashtar-Chemosh and I took from it the vessels of YAWEH, and offered them before Chemosh.

And the king of ISRAEL fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me..." - King Mesha of Moab, 9th C BCE

​

​KHIRBAT ATARUZ INSCRIPTION

​Royal Moabite santuary inscription, Khirbat Ataruz, Jordan - 9th C BCE

"For 8 shekels of bronze

And this: 2 shekels of bronze

Total plunder: 10

4 + 60 from the HEBREWS

And 4,000 men were scattered, and abandoned in great number

From the desolate city (Ataroth) … which … a burnt offering/incense altar

Acquired land…"

​TEL DAN STELE

​Israel Museum - 9th C BCE

"My father (King of Aram) went up..fighting against Ahab (King of ISRAEL).

And my father lay down, he went to his fathers. And the kings of ISRAEL penetrated into my father's land. And Hadad (Canaanite Storm God) made me - myself - king (of Aram)

And Hadad went in front of me, and I departed from (the land) of my kings. And I killed two powerful kings, who harnessed two thousand chariots and two thousand horsemen. 

I killed Joram, son of Ahab, King of ISRAEL, and I killed Ahaziah, son of Joram, King of the HOUSE OF DAVID

And I set (their towns into ruins and turned) their land into (desolation)" - King of Aram, 9th C BCE

​So we know during the period the Hebrew / Israel:

• Were a seperate Semitic entity to Canaan (Different DNA Haplogroup J2/T (Canaanite J2/E1, Arab / Palestinian J1/E1b1b), language group and cultural group)
• Were residing in the eastern hills of Canaan / Jordan valley
• Were respected for their military prowess and considered a regional power (Egyptian recording as one of the "NINE BOWS" of foreign power)
• Were worshipping a god (El) called "YAWEH"

This makes for a very interesting faction akin to the way the Huns / 'Barbarian' factions were depicted in TW:Attila

Vote up if you found this interesting.

PM me if you have any questions

​No, don't like it, but only my personal opinion.

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yanghaohit#5017 wrote:

​No. 

Despite the historical content its not a problem in itself and on a sensible level it is indeed an optional culture. But when I saw the title and read the article, I couldn't help but think of present-day Israel and the inhumane and horrific crimes that took place in Gaza, the word ‘Israel’ is just stomach-churning.

From a business point of view, considering that CA's player base is made up of most of the world's average people, rather than American politicians who are held hostage by an elite group, it's not a good idea for CA to include controversial and sensitive topics in the game if they want to sell more copies of their game.

This is a gaming forum about a historical period based game. So I believe politics should be left out, you should be careful on the terms that you are using : "the word ‘Israel’ is just stomach-churning" : I find this sentence very disturbing. Also, this is not a conspiracy theory forum : "American politicians who are held hostage by an elite group". Gaming was made to escape reality even for a moment and enjoy, I am quite sure that you don't want to think about the holocaust when you play a WWII game, do you..

There's always the chance that CA is saving the Habiru for future DLC but the minor factions piece caught me by surprise. It honestly leaves me feeling very skeptical about the possibility of future additional factions in Pharaoh. It is very weird that we are getting "Damascus" as a playable faction, but not the Habiru.

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EricT17#5290 wrote:
There's very little chance CA will add them to the game. After all the bad PR they have had recently, I don't blame them if they decide trying to add the Israelites to the game is just too much to handle. It's not just the current geopolitical climate, but more with the fact that the origins of the Israelites is a contentious issue with a lot of religious scholars and if CA gets something wrong, they will ruffle a lot of feathers.

1. Ancient ISRAEL is NOT religiously contentious. All three monotheist faiths (Islam, Judaism and Christianity) accept its existence. The ​Quran for example, mentions ancient 'ISRAEL' 6,236 times, it venerates all the Hebrew  / Israeli Phophets.The remainder of the world's faiths remain abivalent.
2. Ancient ISRAEL is NOT scientically contentious. Whilst it wasn't too long ago ISRAEL's very existence and many of the peolples, nations and events (Hittites, Edomites, Amorites, Ammonites, Moabites, Araemeans, wars, conquests, etc etc) mentioned in religious / cultural texts were thought to be merely an origin myth, science has since found them to be at the very least, grounded on fact.

Lets call a spade a spade: The only group of people who I can see may have a problem with Bronze Age Israel are the Racists / Neo-Nazis who just can't abide anything vaguely related to the modern Jews and possibly those who hold worldviews that remain in violent oposition to anything potentially related to contemporary religion.

In both cases eliciting some sort of cognitive disonance / doesn't sit with my beliefs so it must be bullshit. 

The former should never be pandered to. The later, whilst I'm sypathetic, it's pretty poor grounds for historical revisionism ... and that sadly it seems, is what we have here in Pharoah Total War. As previously mentioned, we had Jihads and Crusades (Medieval Total War) right after 911 and we lived :)

Aside: Back in the day I had an awesome Professor. He once said to me, and I never forgot it, "We must manage the world as we find it, not as we wish it to be. Test your null hypothesis, check your sources, critically evaluate your theories .. and have the courage to come to empirically based conclusions, regardless of popularity". Our world would do well to heed his words imho.

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EricT17#5290 wrote:

​

Psycho_V#4329 wrote:

​

EricT17#5290 wrote:
There's very little chance CA will add them to the game. After all the bad PR they have had recently, I don't blame them if they decide trying to add the Israelites to the game is just too much to handle. It's not just the current geopolitical climate, but more with the fact that the origins of the Israelites is a contentious issue with a lot of religious scholars and if CA gets something wrong, they will ruffle a lot of feathers.

1. Ancient ISRAEL is NOT religiously contentious. All three monotheist faiths (Islam, Judaism and Christianity) accept its existence. The ​Quran for example, mentions ancient 'ISRAEL' 6,236 times, it venerates all the Hebrew  / Israeli Phophets.The remainder of the world's faiths remain abivalent.
2. Ancient ISRAEL is NOT scientically contentious. Whilst it wasn't too long ago ISRAEL's very existence and many of the peolples, nations and events (Hittites, Edomites, Amorites, Ammonites, Moabites, Araemeans, wars, conquests, etc etc) mentioned in religious / cultural texts were thought to be merely an origin myth, science has since found them to be at the very least, grounded on fact.

Lets call a spade a spade: The only group of people who I can see may have a problem with Bronze Age Israel are the Racists / Neo-Nazis who just can't abide anything vaguely related to the modern Jews and possibly those who hold worldviews that remain in violent oposition to anything potentially related to contemporary religion.

In both cases eliciting some sort of cognitive disonance / doesn't sit with my beliefs so it must be bullshit. 

The former should never be pandered to. The later, whilst I'm sypathetic, it's pretty poor grounds for historical revisionism ... and that sadly it seems, is what we have here in Pharoah Total War. As previously mentioned, we had Jihads and Crusades (Medieval Total War) right after 911 and we lived :)

Aside: Back in the day I had an awesome Professor. He once said to me, and I never forgot it, "We must manage the world as we find it, not as we wish it to be. Test your null hypothesis, check your sources, critically evaluate your theories .. and have the courage to come to empirically based conclusions, regardless of popularity". Our world would do well to heed his words imho.

I think you misread my post. Even Jewish scholars have disagreements over the origins of the Israelites, and religious Jewish scholars view it as a point of contention since it carries a lot of religious weight in terms of tracing their exact origins. It's not exactly a case of copying + pasting whatever the Mernepteh Stele says.

Actually, I think one of CA's concerns would be how neo-nazis/racist would abuse the presence of Israelites in the game. I think you've zeroed in a bit too much here.

We appear to be talking cross purposes here. Correct me if I'm wrong but you're referring to the "origins of Israel"?

To me that statement means an origin hypothesis from the period of 'pre-Israel history', the period prior the first mention by name of ISRAEL in the historic record. ie anthropolgical assessment of where the people of ISRAEL originally came from and how they ended up in Canaan (noting that they are not part of the Neolithic 'indigenous' Natufian culture). 

That period is NOT in game and NOT what I'm referring to. Happy to go down that rabbit hole in private chat. :)

As I've repeatedly made clear, in the game period, presumed (given the announced changes) to still be from the reign of Merneptah (late 13th / early 12th C BCE) on, ISRAEL was an historic reality (NOT contentious).. as a foreign power; As testified by the rather large 3m block of granite in the Cairo Museum - Merneptah's Stela. 

Yes I do present data from the period immediately prior but I only do so for archeological and linquistic / cultural context, of what that entity most likely looked like at that point in time.