I wonder if there will be any update for them similar to what the Empire got. Even the chaos monogods cults got a rework and that made them interesting while pirate coves remain boring and not even worth the hassle. The faction bonuses and LL's are also boring and outdated.  All the shooty-shooty factions got updates, Dwarfs, Empire, Kislev, while the real shooty faction got stuck in the stone age.  You all know the issues with VCoast.

So what do you guys think, is there a 1% chance even?

Probably at some point yeah they'll get something.

You first have to fix Aranessa before you can fix Vampire Coast as a whole.

A Chance? Sure obviously at some point. 

Not anytime soon tho with LM, VC, Norsca, HE, DE, TK and Bretonnia all desperately needing a big rework. 

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Rocktype#4476 wrote:

The good thing about Coast, is that they can do with a slightly lighter rework. Just some kind of polish on their campaign-mechanics, unit variety and economy, and maybe one new unit or something.

Kinda in the same boat as High/Low Elves, tbh.

Lizardmen, Brets, Nosca and Counts are worse off, because they would actually need new and updated mechanics at this point.

Also, Daniel exists. Hi Daniel.

Not at all. HE need a giant rework and are just as bad as LM. They literally have 0 race mechanics and play like a vanilla faction from Attila basically. 

Zombie Pirate (I refuse to use the stupid name CA has given the race) mechanics are fine from a flavor and complexity standpoint. Thus a minor touch up could suffice, though something more extensive would ofc be preferable.

Personally I'd love to see a jade blooded cartel style subfaction.

Also, (funnily enough) coves not being undercities but their own (invisible) settlements on the map might be more fitting.

Apart from this, gimme a sea raiding stance (accompanied by a redrawing of sea borders to make it not broken) and an Aranessa rework and I'm happy. Well, Noctilus should probably get a teleport.

I think there was something else, but I forgot.

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Captain_Rex#1635 wrote:

A Chance? Sure obviously at some point. 

Not anytime soon tho with LM, VC, Norsca, HE, DE, TK and Bretonnia all desperately needing a big rework. 

HE, DE, TK, Bretonnia and LM don't desperately need a big rework. Some reworks would be nice, but except Bretonnia those races got a lot of dlcs and attention already.  HE will probably get some attention in the next dlc though even though they don't need it as much as some other races.

Sure. 

VC update?  Sure, there's a good chance they'll get something at some point, most likely with Nagash DLC.

SkullVilet#2936 wrote:
HE, DE, TK, Bretonnia and LM don't desperately need a big rework. Some reworks would be nice, but except Bretonnia those races got a lot of dlcs and attention already.  HE will probably get some attention in the next dlc though even though they don't need it as much as some other races.

Quantity of DLC does not equal quality of race.  Beastmen have had substantially fewer DLCs than Lizardmen or HE but they're in a better spot than either in terms of having proper race mechanics.  They may have had a lot of DLCs, but that doesn't mean they don't need fixing as much, because those DLCs haven't fixed them.

The VCoast DLC is one of the two I don't have, so I can't speak from firsthand play experience of their mechanics, but from co-op play, their mechanics seem janky, questionably balanced, and in need of updates, but fundamentally cool and appropriate for the most part.  I'd say they need more of a rebalance than a full rework, with some things (like buried treasure) needing more attention than others (shipbuilding seems broadly fine).

Contrast LM and HE, whose race mechanics are just bare-bones and offer comparatively very little to work with.  VCoast benefitted from being a fully DLC race, and thus having bespoke race mechanics rather than the bland, rushed stuff that basegame TW:WH2 factions got.

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Steelclaw#6359 wrote:
Beastmen have had substantially fewer DLCs than Lizardmen or HE but they're in a better spot than either in terms of having proper race mechanics. 

Well, except that massive powercreep has made them unbelievably dull to play and that's probably the worst of all options.

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

The VCoast DLC is one of the two I don't have, so I can't speak from firsthand play experience of their mechanics, but from co-op play, their mechanics seem janky, questionably balanced, and in need of updates, but fundamentally cool and appropriate for the most part.  I'd say they need more of a rebalance than a full rework, with some things (like buried treasure) needing more attention than others (shipbuilding seems broadly fine).

VCoast is a hodge-podge of mismatched mechanics half of which should just be removed (like the offices) and the faction should have received a proper naval focus years ago. They still don't feel like proper undead pirates but like "modded VCounts".

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:
Contrast LM and HE, whose race mechanics are just bare-bones and offer comparatively very little to work with. 

Right now that's better than powercrept "reworks" that suck all the fun out of playing a race.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
VCoast is a hodge-podge of mismatched mechanics half of which should just be removed (like the offices) and the faction should have received a proper naval focus years ago. They still don't feel like proper undead pirates but like "modded VCounts".

Disagree.  They have a naval focus, and the concept of them using the offices system is fine - I'd take it any day over nothing (which is what many simpler races get).  A bunch of their mechanics are wonky and need tuning, but on a conceptual level they're fine.  Having Raise Dead, vampiric corruption, and units which crumble does not make them particularly similar to VCounts.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
Well, except that massive powercreep has made them unbelievably dull to play and that's probably the worst of all options.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
Right now that's better than powercrept "reworks" that suck all the fun out of playing a race.

I'm sorry you can't find the fun, but as someone who only picked up Beastman and started playing as them recently, I can assure you that they're still very fun to play when you haven't spent hundreds of hours learning the exact best way to abuse every mechanic.

Some more recent reworks have gone too far, but if you think Beastmen are one of them, I suspect that's a you problem, since you seem to think that about many races which almost everyone else is fine with.

​I believe they need to fix bugs and adjust many existing mechanics. For example, there's currently a bug where Pirate Coves established by heroes cause the cost of the next one to increase permanently. This increased cost does not go away and remains for the rest of the game. Combined with the long cooldown after establishing a Pirate Cove, this makes the hero’s ability almost useless. You can’t even send them treasure hunting while waiting for the cooldown to finish.

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
Where? None of their mechanics focus on the oceans. They in fact have the best climate profile in the game and are encouraged to spread as much as possible on dry land. They can pull their drowned corpses even out of deserts and wastelands and their ships float over land just as readily as over the ocean (which is NOT something they could do in the lore safe Vangheist). There's no trade routes to raid, nothing.

As I've said, I don't have the DLC which means I'm trying to recall all of this secondhand, but I'm pretty sure they're mechanically incentivized to be more interested in ports than inland settlements?  Whether that extends to their own settlement building choices/high port income or it's just coves, I'm unsure.  I believe they also get better water attrition/replenishment mechanics than most factions, but I'm uncertain of that too.

There's also the whole thing with having a fully aquatic roster meaning they frequently benefit from the terrain in battles at sea.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
How? Pirates don't strike me as being particularly focussed on bureaucracy, there's a lot of other factions where offices would fit better (including the Empire which had them originally).

Real pirates didn't organize into TW:WH-sized factions.  Fictionalized pirates are plenty hierarchical, and even in real life, ships generally had strictly-assigned roles with purposes.  It's on brand.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
All of these are key-mechanics. That's exactly what makes VCoast a VCounts mod.

They're three mechanics out of dozens, calling them "core" as if they're the only major mechanics is arbitrary cherry-picking.  I could just as easily say that they're like modded dwarfs because they're slow, gunpowder-focused, and have no conventional cavalry.  Or that they're like skaven because they're weak in melee but strong at range, use loyalty mechanics, and can build mini-settlements in other people's settlements.  They don't resemble any other faction that strongly.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
The game is already hyper-optmized for the player before you even do anything, that's the whole problem, pal.

That assertion is too vague for me to agree or disagree.

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
You have to play bad on purpose to actually give the AI any chance to beat you and that of course means that strategy is a mere indulgence, not a necessity and the game has therefore failed and will never hold any entertainment value for strategy gamers.

Nope!  It seems you've forgotten what it's like to play a faction you haven't solved.  You don't have to be bad at the game, and you don't have to throw.  I imagine your problem is either that you've played the game to death, or you can't find new ways to challenge yourself, or both.

There are issues with player-AI balance and poor AI performance, and particularly with power creep on newer factions, but making sweeping statements which equate the power of Beastmen to newer factions like those from the past few DLCs* makes it clear that your position is utterly lacking in any kind of perspective.  The majority of factions are in an entirely acceptable place, balance-wise.  The fact that someone with thousands of hours like you or I has a very high win rate is not, in itself, an indication of bad design.  Would you call chess a bad game just because it can be solved?

*Based on past complaints you've made about various factions using similar language and phrasing to your most recent complaint about Beastmen and... seemingly every faction, with the possible implict exceptions of HE and Lizards?

But to agree with a small part of what you've said in spite of how baffled I am by your general philosophy on balance: I too would prefer to see everything post-Chorfs brought down to at least that point, power-wise.  I wouldn't be upset to see it go a bit further, but Chorfs are the faction I saw as toeing the line of acceptable power escalation.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:

Probably at some point yeah they'll get something.

​At the current rate of updates, that ‘point’ will be when coconut trees grow in Greenland and when a blizzard blows in the Sahara Desert