Honestly, I'm not sure if I titled a thread this before, but I've just been thinking about it a bit lately.

But I really think that Norsca should really get a major update to be made more interesting than they currently are. 

Now don't get me wrong, I think that even in their more basic state, they can be fun, but I feel like there's still some room for improvement and I think that there are plenty of ways in which CA can do that. Though I'm not entirely sure just which direction CA should take them.

Honestly, I think that maybe they could include a few things from the WoC and ChD, such as the WoC's dedicating and upgrading units and the unit cap system from the ChD, but I kind of realize that that sort of thing easily has the potential to either make Norsca feel like a mini WoC or actually far better than them.

Because what I envision is Norsca possibly being able to dedicate their marauder units and characters and eventually turn them into chaos warriors and so on, but you can only have so many of them at a time, being that they're still Norscan warbands and all, and maybe this could also factor into gifted units as well, so that you can truly have some mixed chaos armies. But like I said, this sort of stuff could easily make Norsca into knockoff WoC or make them so good that they almost make the WoC factions look like a joke in comparison.

But aside from what I've so far talked about and some general improvements, I'm honestly not entirely sure what I could suggest for what could be done with Norsca in terms of bigger additions, at least any that help them really stand out as their own unique chaos race.

But what do you guys think? What kind of stuff do you guys think CA can do to improve Norsca as a race in Wh3?

Mercenary/Non Chaotic Norscans​

Honestly, I just think that this would just be a nice a way to give some extra flavor to the human mercenaries of the DoW/SR, and I guess possible hirable mercenary units in general, but maybe, also a way to give a little nuance to the Norscans in the lore. 

Though I will say that they don't have to produce like 50 novels about the non chaotic Norscans to make it work. They could just have the Norscan mercenaries, who I will refer to as Varangians to differentiate them from their chaotic cousins and because I think the name is both cool and would fit for a group of Norse mercenaries, who are pretty much the last remnants of non chaotic Norscans.

But aside from the idea of exploring the non chaotic Norscans in the lore, I really do think that expanding the mercenary Norscans from just a bunch of basics marauders and a single RoR (which should just be a Norscan and WoC RoR unit) could add in some flavor in terms of options of mercenaries to play around with. Maybe they could be something like

Varangian Captain: A solid melee hero that also has a few buffs to choose from, a buff for Varangian units, a thematic aura ability, and maybe a third surprise option.

Varangian Recruits: Your basic marauder style infantry warriors, but with considerably better armor and training. They come in spear and axe variants, both of which throw basic javelins before they charge enemies and can use a shield wall formation.

Varangian Hersir: More experienced warriors who have better armor and carry heavier javelins than the recruits. They come in sword or axe and shield variants and can also use the shield wall formation.

Varangian Huskarls: Elite warriors who have even better armor and shields than the hersir warriors and carry heavy harpoon like javelins. They come in spear/sword and spear/2h axe variants.

Varangian Horsemen: More experienced warriors who can afford horses with barded armor. They use heavy javelins at range and sword and shields for melee.

But that's just a basic idea of a few unit types that could give the mercenary Norscan units a lot more flavor without being an entire roster on their own.

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:
"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Always should have been.

Norsca is not a very popular race, C.A. did mention they were going to rework them but it's still up in the air if that's like a big Kislev patch or an actual DLC

My issue in the campaign is that their razing mechanic slows everything down because you can't occupy b4 raze need two lords etc

Wulfric sucking as a duelist unless he's on a mammoth is lame

Fimir, norscan giant having awfull stats unless you do some specific setup with throgg

Only 1 Lord type feels like a meme and it's somewhat funny

Tech tree takes ages and except from steal tech no way to speed it up, I do like the concept of it, it's interesting but the map being so large does not help 

Monster hunts being fixed quests is meh, would be cooler if you could do a random encounter against monsters and you know actually capture (kill) them and then they they become recruitable in pens or something

The faction has a lot of interesting stuff in there it just needs to be rebalanced a bit, right now it's mostly just marauders + mammoths spam, maybe with some javs and skin wolves 

All the other monsters are cool but don't feel that great and are all very high tier compared to other factions while not being amazing or sometimes much worse

If they would fix those things it would be quite enjoyable I'd wager

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

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Fossoway#5540 wrote:

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

All of the northern tribe falled in to chaos 

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Lunaticprince#9972 wrote:

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Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

All of the northern tribe falled in to chaos 

Eventually. That's what WoC are.

Norsca is a lot more nuanced. Some tribes actually trade with the Empire or even Cathay. Some even fight for them as mercenaries (see Beorg). They're explorers and adventurers. They're raiders and marauders. They're not all hell-bent on the destruction of all good things in the world.

They drink the Chaos kool-aid (see how the venerate the Chaos Gods under other names) but they have not completely fallen yet. That's what makes them so interesting, imo.

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Fossoway#5540 wrote:

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Lunaticprince#9972 wrote:

​

Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

All of the northern tribe falled in to chaos 

Eventually. That's what WoC are.

Norsca is a lot more nuanced. Some tribes actually trade with the Empire or even Cathay. Some even fight for them as mercenaries (see Beorg). They're explorers and adventurers. They're raiders and marauders. They're not all hell-bent on the destruction of all good things in the world.

They drink the Chaos kool-aid (see how the venerate the Chaos Gods under other names) but they have not completely fallen yet. That's what makes them so interesting, imo.

Norscans are also traders and some tribes worship sigmar and ulric, having different tribes with different mechanics would be intesresting maybe even a way to reject Chaos fully as some of them at the cost of massive malus.

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elias_heyndrickx#6201 wrote:

Norsca is not a very popular race, C.A. did mention they were going to rework them but it's still up in the air if that's like a big Kislev patch or an actual DLC

My issue in the campaign is that their razing mechanic slows everything down because you can't occupy b4 raze need two lords etc

Wulfric sucking as a duelist unless he's on a mammoth is lame

Fimir, norscan giant having awfull stats unless you do some specific setup with throgg

Only 1 Lord type feels like a meme and it's somewhat funny

Tech tree takes ages and except from steal tech no way to speed it up, I do like the concept of it, it's interesting but the map being so large does not help 

Monster hunts being fixed quests is meh, would be cooler if you could do a random encounter against monsters and you know actually capture (kill) them and then they they become recruitable in pens or something

The faction has a lot of interesting stuff in there it just needs to be rebalanced a bit, right now it's mostly just marauders + mammoths spam, maybe with some javs and skin wolves 

All the other monsters are cool but don't feel that great and are all very high tier compared to other factions while not being amazing or sometimes much worse

If they would fix those things it would be quite enjoyable I'd wager

The first line is not relevant to if a race should be reworked or not. Beastmen were absolute bottom for ages but it was because they were in a bad state. They got shorted as the first race DLC after the preorder and they came out super conservative with it. No big risks and not willing to do some big SEMS they tackled with ease now. And people constantly used that as why CA should ignore the race or why they wont get any real rework. Well, they reworked them and it shifted the popularity of them dramatically.

Norsca is in this boat because they were the last DLC for game one. Designed for game one in an attempt to make preorders not cut content from the main title like the WoC carved out to just earn extra money. So they were designed for a game that was rapidly made out of date at the prompt release of game II. And then never receiving a large pass over. Only two LL and roster could use extra. All this is more than fixable and would result in a much different outcome on popularity. Lots here want to play Norsca but then look at their roughness that is just not doing to hot and go with WoC or something else.

All things that means they should get a higher priority for that fix.

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Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

Lunaticprince#9972 wrote:

​

Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

All of the northern tribe falled in to chaos 

Eventually. That's what WoC are.

Norsca is a lot more nuanced. Some tribes actually trade with the Empire or even Cathay. Some even fight for them as mercenaries (see Beorg). They're explorers and adventurers. They're raiders and marauders. They're not all hell-bent on the destruction of all good things in the world.

They drink the Chaos kool-aid (see how the venerate the Chaos Gods under other names) but they have not completely fallen yet. That's what makes them so interesting, imo.

Worshipping chaos is being fallen to chaos. Norsca fell to Chaos centuries before. Norsca is fallen to chaos and also engages in those activities. It does represent an in-between which is interesting, but they would be considered fallen to chaos. 

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dogoska#1535 wrote:

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Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

Lunaticprince#9972 wrote:

​

Fossoway#5540 wrote:

​

TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Should be literally the opposite.

Norsca should represent the northern tribes who have not yet fallen to Chaos. They should be and feel like a human/viking-style/monster horde faction, not WoC-lite.

All of the northern tribe falled in to chaos 

Eventually. That's what WoC are.

Norsca is a lot more nuanced. Some tribes actually trade with the Empire or even Cathay. Some even fight for them as mercenaries (see Beorg). They're explorers and adventurers. They're raiders and marauders. They're not all hell-bent on the destruction of all good things in the world.

They drink the Chaos kool-aid (see how the venerate the Chaos Gods under other names) but they have not completely fallen yet. That's what makes them so interesting, imo.

Norscans are also traders and some tribes worship sigmar and ulric, having different tribes with different mechanics would be intesresting maybe even a way to reject Chaos fully as some of them at the cost of massive malus.

Only one tribe worships Olric/Ulric, but that's alongside the Chaos Gods in a more specific pantheon. No tribe worships Sigmar, chiefly because Sigmar drove the Norsii, proto-Norscans, into Norsca. Different tribes having different tribal specific mechanics would be solid. Although, none should be able to reject Chaos. They all worship Chaos and have for thousands of years by this point in the setting. 

Norsca needs some of it's own original content, not more WoC content that gets thrown into them because it's not good enough to make a dlc out of for WoC. The same way that Cathay took historical chinese and fantasy chinese elements, they should take historical and fantasy norse elements, and make new generic characters and units out of it.

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Nyxilis#3646 wrote:

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elias_heyndrickx#6201 wrote:

Norsca is not a very popular race, C.A. did mention they were going to rework them but it's still up in the air if that's like a big Kislev patch or an actual DLC

My issue in the campaign is that their razing mechanic slows everything down because you can't occupy b4 raze need two lords etc

Wulfric sucking as a duelist unless he's on a mammoth is lame

Fimir, norscan giant having awfull stats unless you do some specific setup with throgg

Only 1 Lord type feels like a meme and it's somewhat funny

Tech tree takes ages and except from steal tech no way to speed it up, I do like the concept of it, it's interesting but the map being so large does not help 

Monster hunts being fixed quests is meh, would be cooler if you could do a random encounter against monsters and you know actually capture (kill) them and then they they become recruitable in pens or something

The faction has a lot of interesting stuff in there it just needs to be rebalanced a bit, right now it's mostly just marauders + mammoths spam, maybe with some javs and skin wolves 

All the other monsters are cool but don't feel that great and are all very high tier compared to other factions while not being amazing or sometimes much worse

If they would fix those things it would be quite enjoyable I'd wager

The first line is not relevant to if a race should be reworked or not. Beastmen were absolute bottom for ages but it was because they were in a bad state. They got shorted as the first race DLC after the preorder and they came out super conservative with it. No big risks and not willing to do some big SEMS they tackled with ease now. And people constantly used that as why CA should ignore the race or why they wont get any real rework. Well, they reworked them and it shifted the popularity of them dramatically.

Norsca is in this boat because they were the last DLC for game one. Designed for game one in an attempt to make preorders not cut content from the main title like the WoC carved out to just earn extra money. So they were designed for a game that was rapidly made out of date at the prompt release of game II. And then never receiving a large pass over. Only two LL and roster could use extra. All this is more than fixable and would result in a much different outcome on popularity. Lots here want to play Norsca but then look at their roughness that is just not doing to hot and go with WoC or something else.

All things that means they should get a higher priority for that fix.

Oh don't misunderstand. I like norscan as a race since I enjoy playing destructive races and I fully agree with your point.

They should get priority because they have been skipped over a lot in the past. However because it's not a popular race for most people they would rather see something else like dark elves (three dlc already) or Cathay (1 dlc), they should get at least 2 imho 

But I think Cathay will def get monkey king at some point, prob in ind/khuresh so that will be sorted out

Other contenders like counts and coast are in a similar boat. Counts will be get grouped with nagash and nerferate I assume.

Not sure if coast will get a DLC since it's based on very little I though but would be a cool. At least a rework would be deserved.

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
Norsca needs some of it's own original content

Where exactly do you expect that content to come from? 

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
because it's not good enough to make a dlc out of for WoC

That narrative only exist in your head. Throgg, Mammoths and Skin Wolves are awesome, and,  it seems like people also like Fimir.

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SerPus#7395 wrote:

Where exactly do you expect that content to come from? 

"New original content". CA has shown they can use the lore as well to create new content. Or it'll come from the same place the new Cathay or Kislev content is coming from. New GW creations. But grabbing a bunch of WoC stuff that WoC fans don't want, and then saying "here Norsca can have it I guess" is not where it should come from.

SerPus#7395 wrote:
That narrative only exist in your head. Throgg, Mammoths and Skin Wolves are awesome, and,  it seems like people also like Fimir.

They are (except Throgg, who was terribly implement). Now do the rest of the roster, because you took pretty much the only interesting parts of the roster as an example. Everything else is low effort reskins or copy/pastes. Also, you're taking the things they have, not the things that are still missing from WoC. 

If the chimera, flayerkin, spined chaos spawn, or basilisk are great, then put them into the WoC roster where they belong with a WoC dlc. If those things aren't good enough to make a dlc out of for WoC, they aren't good enough to add to the game.

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MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
CA has shown they can use the lore as well to create new content

The argument that they used for not giving Khorne generic hero in the last DLC was "we couldn't find anything". If we assume that CA can just make up stuff as they go, then they could simply add OC hero option. That wasn't the case. Nor was it the case with Ostankya DLC, where rather than making new OC Kislev monsters, CA simply filled it up with completely unrelated units.

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
Or it'll come from the same place the new Cathay or Kislev content is coming from

The Old World? Considering that WoC journal include Norsca-focused army of infamy, there is no indication that GW even planning separate Norscan army, let alone that they develop one now. 

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
But grabbing a bunch of WoC stuff that WoC fans don't want

Who told you that WoC fans don't want it? Have I missed some WoC fans meeting? 

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
you're taking the things they have

I'm talking about WoC things that were placed in Norsca rather than in WoC. You claim that Norsca get things that weren't good enough for WoC, but these units are really cool. 

MODIDDLY1#9212 wrote:
except Throgg, who was terribly implement

He can always be reworked. The point is that he was a really interesting WoC character, and he went to Norsca. 

​LL: Sayl the Faithless

LH: Beorg Bearstruck
L: Fimir Matriarch
H: Dark Emissary(Shaman-Sorcerers become Lords)
Hung Archers
Hung Horse Archers
Chaos Ogres
Chaos Fenbeast
Curs’d Ettin

FLL: Mortkin

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

TL;DR

"Turn Norsca into WoC"

Sorry for not replying sooner.

I don't fully agree or disagree with that sentiment, because I do believe that Norsca could and can work as its own race, but I feel like some of of the stuff they can do with them would be just like I brought out in the OP, either making them into better and/or more interesting versions of the WoC or just making them semi WoC.

I personally wish that CA would've made a non chaotic Norscan sub faction, because then they could've at least had a different feeling campaign compared to Wulfrik and Throgg.