This thread is less about WHO the FLC Lord will be (although I suppose they are tangentially related) but more about WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISH. 

For example, there is a huge difference between the Tallyman of Nurgle, Tamurkhan, and Ku'gath. There's also a huge difference between Kairos and The Changeling -- to the point where they blow up each other's resources and networks up when they confederate. 

My question is deceptively complex, because on the surface it appears simple. The reason it's complex is because the 3rd LL should fill a gap or play-style that doesn't already exist within Tzeentch's roster of (2 lol) Lords, but at the same time be thematic. 

Thank God that CA listened to our request for better and more impactful cults; however, that incidentally pivots the 3rd FLC Lord away from being cult-centric (IMO - unless we want a 3rd type of cult?) 

What it does open up is the following: 
1) Extreme melee/duellist/disruption Lord. Tanky, works well against groups and single targets. Perhaps rides a chaos dragon yet has anti-large?
2) Lord that is based on chaos mutations - spawn, forsaken, chaos dragons, experimental hybrid daemon/creature units 
3) Forcably mutated units that -- somewhat similar to Slaanesh's "stealing a unit" -- are  "executed" at low HP and/or morale and turned into a Tzeentch unit 
4) Sleeper agent units, that are marked by Tzeentch without their owner knowing, and then when activated become mind controlled (order 66-style) 

So what we have so far is a late game, extreme "caster" Lord with low melee capabilities (Kairos) who uses Changing of the Ways to manipulate the world at large. Buffs Lords of Change dramatically, and always ambushes. Can teleport, uses cults, is a slow burn faction. 

We also have The Changeling -- a very "unique" love-or-hate faction that plays differently. Lots of war theaters, teleportation both around the map and short-ranged, messes with the power balance of factions, can morph into enemy heroes (with some missed potential?); definition of "kingmaker;" encouraged to form alliances to gain access to new forms and "borrow" armies as he buffs them. Has slight buffs to mutated units, but not nearly to the extent of a devoted mutation faction. DOES NOT make an "Empire" like Kairos. 

What we're missing: melee orientation-based Lord; offensive/esoteric focus for the Changing of Ways (e.g. forming or marking units for mutation/mind control); mad scientist "change for change's sake" and "mutation is a gift" both fall firmly in-line with Tzeentch as a god of chaos and pre-established lore. 

Think borrowing elements of Clan Moulder "experimentation with units" and Witch Hut/Ogre Kingdom - Paunch's "Cauldron that can create new strains of mutation. Lots of experimental "fodder" combined with "successful" creations that are monsterous and powerful - but also flexible (e.g. anti-large, anti-infantry, flying, anti-magic, anti-melee spell damage). 

The units can actually end up overmutating and die, but before that happens they can become incredibly strong. Change. 

I also like the idea of "blowing up low HP units" into new Tzeentch units. 

Any ideas, guys? 

I just want it to be Egrimm.  I don't care what he does.  CA will come up with something.

​

TheWattman#7460 wrote:
Well that WOULD'VE BEEN AEKOLD

Funny way to spell Villitch. Or you know… Egrimm considering he was a more powerful melee combatant anyways.

Mastigos#4130 wrote:
For example, there is a huge difference between the Tallyman of Nurgle, Tamurkhan, and Ku'gath. 

Is there really? Ku’gath and Epidemius aren’t that different on the campaign map other than some thematic differences in plague use and unit choice, but overall the campaigns play out similarly. Then you take a look at Khorne and those campaigns… well do not play out so differently. 

I will say, by all that’s holy in Tzeentch’s name, I really hope it’s not another boring collect battle resource -> stack unit buff mechanic. I’d much rather some campaign scheming mechanic. Despite the Changeling working with Cults, I think the campaign plays differently enough that there’s room for other ways to explore the system. There’s many ways to do Espionage systems that could lead to satisfying gameplay.

I assume the depth of such a mechanic will really depend on whether Egrimm is a DLC or FLC LL, and frankly I think it’s possible it will be the later.

I just want it to be a more standard Tzeentch experience instead of something vastly different like the Changeling.

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Passthechips#4366 wrote:

Funny way to spell Villitch. Or you know… Egrimm considering he was a more powerful melee combatant anyways.

Both of those are still Wizards, one a full-blown one and the other a hybrid. A pure Tzeentch-melee experience would've been Aekold.

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TheWattman#7460 wrote:
You know, its funny you word it like this, because we haven't even had 1 FLC LL yet. Assuming Egrimm or Galrauch is the first (the other being DLC), then we have idk, Amon'Chakai and for a 3rd FLC... well I'd like to call for a vote between Aelfric Cyenwulf, Diego Estragon or Einarr Sigdansson.

Amon'Chakai or any of the other old-school named greater daemons like Sabeiathrax, Anggrath or Zarakynel have about zero chance of making an appearance. And please no characters from the margins of some pulpy novel that no one read. Tzeentch has large enough legitimate character roster as is.

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TheWattman#7460 wrote:

​

Passthechips#4366 wrote:

Funny way to spell Villitch. Or you know… Egrimm considering he was a more powerful melee combatant anyways.

Both of those are still Wizards, one a full-blown one and the other a hybrid. A pure Tzeentch-melee experience would've been Aekold.

So what? Villitch does great in melee. Being able to cast spells doesn’t mean an LL isn’t providing the “melee experience”. Characters like Vlad aren’t less terrifying melee combatant because they can also cast spells. If we’re going by the TT, Egrimm on foot was a stronger melee combatant than Aekold.

Tzeentch doesn't need a melee-only LL.

​

So badly want Egrimm van Horstmann. I want him with Full Lore of Light, Loremaster of Light and Cataclysm spell of Light. Atop of Baudros he will be unique amongst Tzeentch casters.

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Tzeentch doesn't need a melee-only LL.

As much as any other race.

Passthechips#4366 wrote:

Niche is correct, in that it’s an incredibly niche distinction. The gameplay add is simply having a character with less things to do.

This is especially true in regards to Aekold who is just a fire and forget unit with some auras that I hit right click on and focus on something else. At least the Chaos Lord of Tzeentch has some interesting abilities. Hell, the Khorne LHs have more going for them. 

Which is probably why they made the character just an LH.

And now the Conqueror of Kislev will never conquer anything.

​

Mastigos#4130 wrote:

This thread is less about WHO the FLC Lord will be (although I suppose they are tangentially related) but more about WHAT THEY ACCOMPLISH. 

For example, there is a huge difference between the Tallyman of Nurgle, Tamurkhan, and Ku'gath. There's also a huge difference between Kairos and The Changeling -- to the point where they blow up each other's resources and networks up when they confederate. 

My question is deceptively complex, because on the surface it appears simple. The reason it's complex is because the 3rd LL should fill a gap or play-style that doesn't already exist within Tzeentch's roster of (2 lol) Lords, but at the same time be thematic. 

Thank God that CA listened to our request for better and more impactful cults; however, that incidentally pivots the 3rd FLC Lord away from being cult-centric (IMO - unless we want a 3rd type of cult?) 

What it does open up is the following: 
1) Extreme melee/duellist/disruption Lord. Tanky, works well against groups and single targets. Perhaps rides a chaos dragon yet has anti-large?
2) Lord that is based on chaos mutations - spawn, forsaken, chaos dragons, experimental hybrid daemon/creature units 
3) Forcably mutated units that -- somewhat similar to Slaanesh's "stealing a unit" -- are  "executed" at low HP and/or morale and turned into a Tzeentch unit 
4) Sleeper agent units, that are marked by Tzeentch without their owner knowing, and then when activated become mind controlled (order 66-style) 

So what we have so far is a late game, extreme "caster" Lord with low melee capabilities (Kairos) who uses Changing of the Ways to manipulate the world at large. Buffs Lords of Change dramatically, and always ambushes. Can teleport, uses cults, is a slow burn faction. 

We also have The Changeling -- a very "unique" love-or-hate faction that plays differently. Lots of war theaters, teleportation both around the map and short-ranged, messes with the power balance of factions, can morph into enemy heroes (with some missed potential?); definition of "kingmaker;" encouraged to form alliances to gain access to new forms and "borrow" armies as he buffs them. Has slight buffs to mutated units, but not nearly to the extent of a devoted mutation faction. DOES NOT make an "Empire" like Kairos. 

What we're missing: melee orientation-based Lord; offensive/esoteric focus for the Changing of Ways (e.g. forming or marking units for mutation/mind control); mad scientist "change for change's sake" and "mutation is a gift" both fall firmly in-line with Tzeentch as a god of chaos and pre-established lore. 

Think borrowing elements of Clan Moulder "experimentation with units" and Witch Hut/Ogre Kingdom - Paunch's "Cauldron that can create new strains of mutation. Lots of experimental "fodder" combined with "successful" creations that are monsterous and powerful - but also flexible (e.g. anti-large, anti-infantry, flying, anti-magic, anti-melee spell damage). 

The units can actually end up overmutating and die, but before that happens they can become incredibly strong. Change. 

I also like the idea of "blowing up low HP units" into new Tzeentch units. 

Any ideas, guys? 

Give me Egrimm and give him a mechanic that is a mix of Kislev's Ice Court and Gelt's College of Magic mechanic.

​

TheWattman#7460 wrote:
As much as any other race.

No, not as much as any other Race.  The God of Magic doesn't need a melee-only LL.

Just like Khorne doesn't need a spellcaster LL.

Just like Vampire Counts don't need a melee-only LL.

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

The God of Magic

Who has melee-only followers.

DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Just like Khorne doesn't need a spellcaster LL.

Because Khorne doesn't use magic. Tzeentch uses both magic and melee.

DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

Just like Vampire Counts don't need a melee-only LL.

Vampire Undeath pretty much auto-includes magical affinity. No major character that I know of is a melee-only Vampire. Unlike Tzeentch who has such instances.

TheWattman#7460 wrote:
No major character that I know of is a melee-only Vampire