Basically what I was talking about earlier and what we'll need to focus on for the AI after the campaign map

Nah Campaign pacing first. Bring back Proving grounds and rework, growth, recruitment/upkeep costs and income in general. MAybe also experiment with unit caps as a toggle option. 

The campaign is just way to fast and elite units get available at turn 40 which is way to soon. 

Lets take Pharao for example... even if you could recruit Elite Units, they were so expensive that you could only effort a handfull of them at best and mid tier rank and file tropps were still the core of your armies. That is something WH3 needs. Basic units like HE Spearmen, Dwarf Warriors, Dreadspears and State Troops should be the main bulk of your armies even beyomnd turn 20. Elits should be elites. Nonsense like Phoenix Guard Doomstaclks should NEVER even be a thing. 

Definitely battlefield ai next, for me. The bones are there it just needs a bigger focus on utilizing the existing tools like magic and army abilities like Menace Below. They also need to better replicate certain human tendencies like chasing down routing units and making sure that those units die. 

​

Captain_Rex#1635 wrote:

Nah Campaign pacing first. Bring back Proving grounds and rework, growth, recruitment/upkeep costs and income in general. MAybe also experiment with unit caps as a toggle option. 

The campaign is just way to fast and elite units get available at turn 40 which is way to soon. 

Lets take Pharao for example... even if you could recruit Elite Units, they were so expensive that you could only effort a handfull of them at best and mid tier rank and file tropps were still the core of your armies. That is something WH3 needs. Basic units like HE Spearmen, Dwarf Warriors, Dreadspears and State Troops should be the main bulk of your armies even beyomnd turn 20. Elits should be elites. Nonsense like Phoenix Guard Doomstaclks should NEVER even be a thing. 

​

MaST#4787 wrote:

​

Captain_Rex#1635 wrote:

Nah Campaign pacing first. Bring back Proving grounds and rework, growth, recruitment/upkeep costs and income in general. MAybe also experiment with unit caps as a toggle option. 

The campaign is just way to fast and elite units get available at turn 40 which is way to soon. 

Lets take Pharao for example... even if you could recruit Elite Units, they were so expensive that you could only effort a handfull of them at best and mid tier rank and file tropps were still the core of your armies. That is something WH3 needs. Basic units like HE Spearmen, Dwarf Warriors, Dreadspears and State Troops should be the main bulk of your armies even beyomnd turn 20. Elits should be elites. Nonsense like Phoenix Guard Doomstaclks should NEVER even be a thing. 

Definitely this.

Except for a couple of glaring bugs that will probably be fixed with in-between patches (eg, pathing issues and fire at will bug), the battles are enjoyable enough. But the campaign game is not about just battles - that's what quick battles are for. The game main problems are campaign pacing (everything is too damn fast, the player has too many resources available, there's too much growth and replenishment all around), army compositions (we need unit caps and élite units should feel élite, not the main bulk of an army), public order and corruption (that are currently irrelevant), campaign AI, powercreep (it should be toned the hell down across the board).

Which I can't disagree with, since LL get a lot of experience and those swing fast, that AI for other lords, heroes and LL are gaining the wrong items and skills that are needed, which as you rightly put it. Elite units should cost many times more than a bunch of armies with low rank units. What are the same steam tanks, titans and similar elite infantry and cavalry. And corruption and even then brought a lot of problems from which the order collapsed and there were rebellions from corruption, that from vampires and that from Chaos. Of course I want them to fix the AI of sieges and battles, but what you both mentioned can't be ignored either.

​

lordchance2#1568 wrote:

Wonder if you have any idea how obnoxious such behavior is from the AI, with the current strength of army abilities and magic it would not be a good idea for the AI to use them well.

If you first nerf magic and especially army abilities sure but say skaven that use their magic and army abilities well...would be too frustrating to play to say the least, just look at how you basically have to game ikits nuke or play with 1-2 units less than the enemy honestly auto resolving is the best idea if possible currently and Tamurkhan is similiar and so is a few other chaos lords which are considerably under valued in auto resolve and probably way too overpowered on the battlefield.

Smarter battle AI for sure but obnoxious abilities should be less common and less battle winning especially nukes and unit summons. Abilities are fun and should be there but units should preferably win battles not gimmicks.

Well if it’s too good against the player then it’s too good in general and should be nerfed. That being said, magic is generally fine in MP, and maintaining battlefield awareness to dodge enemy spells is a skill issue.

Ideally this behavior should be tied to battle difficulty so that people can just lower the difficulty if they find it too hard.

​

Passthechips#4366 wrote:

Well if it’s too good against the player then it’s too good in general and should be nerfed. That being said, magic is generally fine in MP, and maintaining battlefield awareness to dodge enemy spells is a skill issue.

It's not fine in MP either because you really just plonk a mage on a flying mount and use just a handful of "meta" spells and then just keep spamming. CA dumbing down magic like this and making it way more effective than its TT counterparts was always a terrible decision that is long overdue for a course correction.

Not now. Fixing the AI and campaign pacing first, then public order and corruption, siege can wait.

Honestly, I don't hold out much hope that CA can fix Sieges. Fixing Sieges would require remaking almost all of the settlement battle maps, which would require a tremendous amount of work, and the DLC team clearly doesn't have the resources to do so.

​

lordchance2#1568 wrote:

​

Funzo#7954 wrote:

Definitely battlefield ai next, for me. The bones are there it just needs a bigger focus on utilizing the existing tools like magic and army abilities like Menace Below. They also need to better replicate certain human tendencies like chasing down routing units and making sure that those units die. 

Wonder if you have any idea how obnoxious such behavior is from the AI, with the current strength of army abilities and magic it would not be a good idea for the AI to use them well.

If you first nerf magic and especially army abilities sure but say skaven that use their magic and army abilities well...would be too frustrating to play to say the least, just look at how you basically have to game ikits nuke or play with 1-2 units less than the enemy honestly auto resolving is the best idea if possible currently and Tamurkhan is similiar and so is a few other chaos lords which are considerably under valued in auto resolve and probably way too overpowered on the battlefield.

Smarter battle AI for sure but obnoxious abilities should be less common and less battle winning especially nukes and unit summons. Abilities are fun and should be there but units should preferably win battles not gimmicks.

That's fine if you just want to punch someone in the face because you understand that even if they fight back, they can't win the fight. If you want to fight in order to measure yourself, then it's not a good metric of your abilities. What's more, you've already determined the outcome without ever being in the actual situation or having seen in it play out in a very similar situation. 

Your statement that Units should win fights might work in a game where everyone is a human. In a race like Vampire Counts that doesn't hold up to the slightest amount of scrutiny. You've predetermined the outcome before you even bothered to assess the environment that you are asking to remain in existence. Especially in the current environment, where casters can be Silenced on top of being sniped.