Three stages of WH3, and a prediction of contents left in Stage Ⅱ

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 12:41:12 PM

Stage I of the game commenced on February 17th, 2022, upon the game's release, and concluded on August 23rd, 2022, with the rollout of Immortal Empire. At the time, everything was so perfect and promising. It appeared to be the ultimate game, infusing Warhammer Fantasy with new vitality, unparalleled in the richness of its strategic gameplay within the Total War framework, with no precedent and likely no successor in terms of excellence.


Stage Ⅱ began after IE and its ending, defined by OP, is at the final implementation of all DLC plans that CA has currently made traceable in reality which could be DoW or any generic lord pack. It began with Chaos Dwarf, and it is indeed the age of chaos. In short, the issues with Stage Ⅱ include: 1) DLCs‘ price increase is unjustified; 2) Its development cycle is much longer than that of the DLC for WH2, yet the quality shows no difference, which is confusing; 3) The developers have grown accustomed to attracting casual players through overpowered campaigns rather than gameplay and fun.


Stage III depends on how SEGA and CA assess the performance of Stage II. In the worst-case scenario, Stage III may not exist at all. But equally, it is also a stage that players can fantasize about endlessly.


Anyway, for the current Stage II, here's a prediction I've made based on the degree of rework each race requires and their popularity, just for the fun of it and to entertain everyone.

7.0: Slaanesh vs High Elves vs Skaven.

8.0: Dogs of War.

9.0: Cathay vs Norsca vs Lizardmen.

10.0: Kislev vs Vampire Courts vs Tomb Kings. (There might be Nagash content as a major free update along with this DLC)

Then, CA and SEGA will conduct an overall assessment of the situation with WH3 and decide how to conclude this great series in the final Stage III.


Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD, I really don't think Stage II will have a long lifespan. That's basically all my thoughts on this. What do you guys think? Please share your opinions.

Updated a month ago.
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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 1:01:19 PM

Something to assess in all the doom and gloom is that a recent rapport showed that most likely Warhammer Total War is vastly more profitable than previously assumed. Until CA has another big title (read 40k Total War) ready to axle that burden they will continue to release DLC potentially reducing quality if sales start to flag. 


Also the game has really since ToD been in a rather good state with concurrent players meaning that what CA is doing is working, whatever we think of the stuff they are doing.


Personally I agree with you to a large degree about development time and overall OP focus instead of quality and fixing but I'd say 3 more DLC is certain with more not being entirely unlikely if the game keeps selling.

Updated a month ago.
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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 1:17:43 PM

7.0 Slaanesh(Dechala) + HEs(Aislinn) + DEs(Tullaris)
8.0 Dogs of War(Borgio + Lucrezzia + Marco + Lietpold)
9.0 Vampire Bloodlines(Walach + Neferata + Zacharias + Ushoran)
10.0 Norsca(Sayl) + Cathay(MK) + Skaven(Thanquol)
11.0 Undead Legions(Nagash) + TKs(Sehenesmet) + VCoast(Zheng Shih)
12.0 BM(Ghorros) + Bretonnia(Bohemond) + WEs(Araloth)
13.0 Empire(Emil Valgeir) + Cathay(Yin-Yin) + LM(Tetto'eko)
14+ Character Packs!


kaiki#4128 wrote:
Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD, I really don't think Stage II will have a long lifespan. That's basically all my thoughts on this. What do you guys think?

I think OoD isn't a failure.

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 1:20:29 PM

Seems CA is still restructuring itself after the hyenas fiasco and I`d say they have a good chance to get a golden age if they fix most of the long standing issues by patches. I`d also wager cheaper and faster DLCs are preferable just like 2 factions rivalry, the last both ToD and OeD have 2 good reworks and one that is either meh or has to be touched again and again (dwarves and greenskins).

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 1:55:00 PM

DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

7.0 Slaanesh(Dechala) + HEs(Aislinn) + DEs(Tullaris)
8.0 Dogs of War(Borgio + Lucrezzia + Marco + Lietpold)
9.0 Vampire Bloodlines(Walach + Neferata + Zacharias + Ushoran)
10.0 Norsca(Sayl) + Cathay(MK) + Skaven(Thanquol)
11.0 Undead Legions(Nagash) + TKs(Sehenesmet) + VCoast(Zheng Shih)
12.0 BM(Ghorros) + Bretonnia(Bohemond) + WEs(Araloth)
13.0 Empire(Emil Valgeir) + Cathay(Yin-Yin) + LM(Tetto'eko)
14+ Character Packs!


kaiki#4128 wrote:
Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD, I really don't think Stage II will have a long lifespan. That's basically all my thoughts on this. What do you guys think?

I think OoD isn't a failure.

Captain_Rex#1635 wrote:

kaiki#4128 wrote:
Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD

OoD wasn’t a failure at all. 

Golgfag has the most boring campaign after Changeling, and Skulltaker is no exception. Abaal's campaign is only interesting for perhaps the first 15 turns, after which you'll find it becomes overpowered like the others.


You might have a different definition of failure, but to me, OoD is just as disappointing as SoC.

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 1:59:16 PM

lordchance2#1568 wrote:


Personally I agree with you to a large degree about development time and overall OP focus instead of quality and fixing but I'd say 3 more DLC is certain with more not being entirely unlikely if the game keeps selling.

I agree that we have 3 more DLCs of WH3 which is enough. CA has said that they will reveal their next big game this year. Which implies a release in 2026. ofc could be beginning of the year or end of the year but for all purpose we can draw an expected value of June 26. 

Meaning around 18-20 months of WH3 support remaining (arggh still too long) which if CA picks up the pace equates exactly to 3 DLCs.



kaiki#4128 wrote:


Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD, I really don't think Stage II will have a long lifespan. That's basically all my thoughts on this. 


Yeah WH3 DLCs have been a mixed bag with 2 very good : chaos dwarfs and ToD and 3 failures : CoC, SoC, OoD. In the larger picture, the failures of Hyenas and Pharaoh resulted in CA being almost done. They barely survived and need a big commercial win for their next big game.

But yeah everyone agrees (even on this forum) that WH3  DLCs were mixed and that we need to go quichly to the next game and put this one behind us.


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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:00:44 PM

Too much doomsaying.


In the "bad" stage 2 we got Chaos Dwarves with the most complex mechanic at release of the entire game, got a unique mechanic for dwarves and several extensive large scale mechanics for empire lords like the new authority system, gunnery school and college of magic, all which as far as I can see are quite liked.


If thats how it continues I will gladly buy more dlc.


CA only stepped into the Paradox trap where when they release extensive updates for free, some players, instead of being grateful and honoring it, become entitled and demand even more content from dlcs, nit realizing that dlc purchases made those reworks free in the first place.

Updated a month ago.
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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:02:04 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:

Golgfag has the most boring campaign after Changeling, and Skulltaker is no exception. Abaal's campaign is only interesting for perhaps the first 15 turns, after which you'll find it becomes overpowered like the others.


You might have a different definition of failure, but to me, OoD is just as disappointing as SoC.

If LLs being overpowered means that DLC was a failure, then why don't you also count ToD as a failure? 

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:10:22 PM

SerPus#7395 wrote:

kaiki#4128 wrote:

Golgfag has the most boring campaign after Changeling, and Skulltaker is no exception. Abaal's campaign is only interesting for perhaps the first 15 turns, after which you'll find it becomes overpowered like the others.


You might have a different definition of failure, but to me, OoD is just as disappointing as SoC.

If LLs being overpowered means that DLC was a failure, then why don't you also count ToD as a failure? 

OoD is a failure because the mechanics of the new factions haven't been thoughtfully designed. Like I said, you'll find the campaigns of Abaal, Skulltaker, and especially Golgfag very boring; you can't even make it to the middle stage. They simply can't compare to the design in ToD.


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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:17:22 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:
Stage I of the game commenced on February 17th, 2022, upon the game's release, and concluded on August 23rd, 2022, with the rollout of Immortal Empire. At the time, everything was so perfect and promising. It appeared to be the ultimate game, infusing Warhammer Fantasy with new vitality, unparalleled in the richness of its strategic gameplay within the Total War framework, with no precedent and likely no successor in terms of excellence.

This strikes me as rose-tinted glasses to the extreme.  Early stages of the game were extremely buggy and imbalanced, only a small minority actually liked Realms of Chaos, and people were extremely disappointed with Daniel and with the lore changes to Kislev.  It wasn't some golden era, it was a stage most people were waiting to get past so we could have Immortal Empires.

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:18:21 PM

songoffire#8157 wrote:

lordchance2#1568 wrote:


Personally I agree with you to a large degree about development time and overall OP focus instead of quality and fixing but I'd say 3 more DLC is certain with more not being entirely unlikely if the game keeps selling.

I agree that we have 3 more DLCs of WH3 which is enough. CA has said that they will reveal their next big game this year. Which implies a release in 2026. ofc could be beginning of the year or end of the year but for all purpose we can draw an expected value of June 26. 

Meaning around 18-20 months of WH3 support remaining (arggh still too long) which if CA picks up the pace equates exactly to 3 DLCs.



kaiki#4128 wrote:


Considering the failures of CoC, SoC, and OoD, I really don't think Stage II will have a long lifespan. That's basically all my thoughts on this. 


Yeah WH3 DLCs have been a mixed bag with 2 very good : chaos dwarfs and ToD and 3 failures : CoC, SoC, OoD. In the larger picture, the failures of Hyenas and Pharaoh resulted in CA being almost done. They barely survived and need a big commercial win for their next big game.

But yeah everyone agrees (even on this forum) that WH3  DLCs were mixed and that we need to go quichly to the next game and put this one behind us.


Pharaoh had a tiny budget. It was just a risky attempt to milk the whales. It failed, but its impact was limited, due to how tiny effort was invested in the first place. Hyenas was developed by a different studio that wasn't even located in the same building. CA's case is not exceptional. Quite a few gaming companies have struggled in the last years, because the rosy period of the pandemic has ended and now they suffer from the bloat and the deflating market.

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:31:32 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:
You might have a different definition of failure, but to me, OoD is just as disappointing as SoC.

My definition is financial.  Since the entire point you were making was how the failure of those DLCs would effect the lifespan of the game.


It doesn't matter how well you liked the DLC.  If it sold well, it's not going to negatively impact the lifespan of the game.


Steelclaw#6359 wrote:
This strikes me as rose-tinted glasses to the extreme.  Early stages of the game were extremely buggy and imbalanced, only a small minority actually liked Realms of Chaos, and people were extremely disappointed with Daniel and with the lore changes to Kislev.  It wasn't some golden era, it was a stage most people were waiting to get past so we could have Immortal Empires.

+1


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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:32:56 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:
you can't even make it to the middle stage

It was the same for me with Malakai. Once you unlock grapeshot upgrade for cannons the game is basically over, you will win any battle no matter the odds. 

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:45:01 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:
Golgfag has the most boring campaign after Changeling, and Skulltaker is no exception.

No not at all. The concept of their campaigns are great and super fun. They just need some heavy nerfs but the general ideas behind them are 10/10. 

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 2:47:27 PM

SerPus#7395 wrote:

kaiki#4128 wrote:
you can't even make it to the middle stage

It was the same for me with Malakai. Once you unlock grapeshot upgrade for cannons the game is basically over, you will win any battle no matter the odds. 

How so? Sure his battles are not that hard but Malakais campaign is still moderately challenging since he is surrounded by enemies. 

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 3:01:27 PM

DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

kaiki#4128 wrote:
You might have a different definition of failure, but to me, OoD is just as disappointing as SoC.

My definition is financial.  Since the entire point you were making was how the failure of those DLCs would effect the lifespan of the game.


It doesn't matter how well you liked the DLC.  If it sold well, it's not going to negatively impact the lifespan of the game.


Steelclaw#6359 wrote:
This strikes me as rose-tinted glasses to the extreme.  Early stages of the game were extremely buggy and imbalanced, only a small minority actually liked Realms of Chaos, and people were extremely disappointed with Daniel and with the lore changes to Kislev.  It wasn't some golden era, it was a stage most people were waiting to get past so we could have Immortal Empires.

+1


​I understand. But I remember the online player count on Steam Charts after the release of OoD wasn't as optimistic as you claimed it "sold well".

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 3:11:48 PM

Captain_Rex#1635 wrote:

kaiki#4128 wrote:
Golgfag has the most boring campaign after Changeling, and Skulltaker is no exception.

No not at all. The concept of their campaigns are great and super fun. They just need some heavy nerfs but the general ideas behind them are 10/10. 

How is Skulltaker’s bland choose a buff menu a 10/10 idea? It’s the LCD of campaign mechanic design. 

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a month ago
Jan 20, 2025, 3:24:01 PM

kaiki#4128 wrote:
the online player count on Steam Charts after the release of OoD wasn't as optimistic

because it released during Christmas time when everyone was super busy. It also released with some hefty bugs that made people wait for a few patches. 

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