Sounds like the problem is CA left the timing of the dragon transformation as a free choice for the player, and therefore felt compelled to make the transformation not a strict upgrade in abilities.  So the idea on paper was you can transform into an SEM but you lose access to spells.  But in execution the result was you can transform into a garbage SEM (like a Giant) and you lose access to spells.

Solution options:

(1) Make the transformation a power-up meter or rage meter, so it becomes a reward rather than a choice.  Then the SEM no longer needs to be garbage (I mean, "have drawbacks") but is free to outclass the human form physically in every way.  

(2) Keep it a choice for the player, don't bother to fix its animations because that's too much work.  Instead, just allow the dragon access to spells and slap on some strong dragon-only abilities (passive and active) because that's easy to do.

Well that's just your preference.  A lot of people would like to play the human form too.  And like you said, the shapeshifting is cool.  Now, if the dragon form is miles better, then the complaint would be that the human form is too useless.  You'd like it, but people who prefer the human form wouldn't.

It should be a timed ability then.  Turn into dragon and kick ass (assuming animations are fixed).  Involuntarily turn back to human after 45 seconds.  Have to wait for transformation ability cooldown before can turn into dragon again.  This would allow some tactical considerations.

Having the Human form be spell caster focused, with limited - decent melee capabilities, and the dragon form have strong melee focused abilities, with limited spell capabilities, except things like dragon breath, would at least give you the choice, do you want to control smaller areas of the battlefield on foot with spells, or larger areas via dragon form via melee.  The cool down between human and dragon feels clunky and the dragons attacks do feel, awkward? I mainly use dragon form as a way to traverse the battlefield until i can pop back into human form, human form seemingly the optimal way to engage in combat, which feels silly given the whole, can turn into a dragon thing....

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ABK_Morgan#2172 wrote:

Having the Human form be spell caster focused, with limited - decent melee capabilities, and the dragon form have strong melee focused abilities, with limited spell capabilities, except things like dragon breath, would at least give you the choice, do you want to control smaller areas of the battlefield on foot with spells, or larger areas via dragon form via melee.  The cool down between human and dragon feels clunky and the dragons attacks do feel, awkward? I mainly use dragon form as a way to traverse the battlefield until i can pop back into human form, human form seemingly the optimal way to engage in combat, which feels silly given the whole, can turn into a dragon thing....

Yeah. It's one of those rare instances of CA releasing something that's undertuned. It's why I don't support the power creep crowd. Something that is released in a defective state can languish in that state for months or indefinitely. They were too conservative with the dragons of Grand Cathay and it shows. Now you're likely to face a rather large amount of criticism and resistance from a very vocal anti-anything-that's-not-the-old-world crowd on top of the Grand Cathay detractors. It's why I don't support that practice. Ever. 

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Sandboxhead#8494 wrote:

Well that's just your preference.  

Obviously.

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Ixalmaris#4807 wrote:

Do you think CA will at some point rework the dragon siblings? Not their mechanics but their unit.

As I see it there are several problems with them.

1. In dragon form they lose access to nearly all magic, meaning all the skillpoints you used to unlock spells go to waste in that form.

2. The stats of dragons are not that much of an upgrade. They are all already very good fighters in human form, so switching often only results in them being an easier target especially for ranged.

3. The combat animation of the dragon form often misses or has very weird hit zones, making the human form often times more effective especially against small single entities but also against normal units despite the smaller aoe attack.

4. In dragon form they have a tendency to become stunlocked when fighting other monsters as Cathay dragons tend to attack just a little bit slower than other monsters and a single hit flinches them.

5. The cooldown for changing forms is very long so you can't dynamically switch back and forth but for most if the combat you are using one form only.

So in short the dragon form is mostly redundant and often times a downgrade. Especially 1 + 5 together seems counterproductive as you get locked out of spells and are unable to change back for a long time, so you are Incentivise to stay in human form for as long as possible.

I largely disagree with point number one. I do think that they should have certain abilities available to them in their true form that aren't available to them in their alternate form. I don't view my points as missing because I have transformed into a dragon that can't cast spells. 

I completely disagree with point number two, with the exception of Yuan Bo. Transforming a character from a low armor piercing (AP) model into a high AP ratio model is very impactful. It's like how the Celestial General on the Celestial lion mount was so meh. Yet putting an empire lord on a griffon is a big deal. 

The animations are still a bit of a problem. That's not something that can be denied anymore. That's an issue within the game itself that seems to be magnified on models like Cathayan dragons. 

I don't know where to find the data for their attack interval while in their true form. So I won't comment on that area. The stun effect is also something that I don't know about because I only duel smaller characters. It could be partly because of their lower mass. I'm not sure. 

The cooldown is also something that I think is part of CA introducing them in a lukewarm state. There are a number of things that should have been done to differentiate the siblings via the transformation ability. That's something that still needs to be looked at. As well as the ability to reduce the cooldown in their respective skill trees. I don't like the restrictions placed on when we can transform or that we can't start our battles in the form of our choice. 

Being able to change between Dragon and human offers more options in terms of magic/buffing and pure combat. CA won't change their entire nature of these LLs on a single comment, which is certainly right.

The best solution is to completely fix or tweak the dragon attack animations/ collisions/ etc, so that the player wouldn't care if the dragon form has no magic because it's flinging enemy body parts all over the place.  It's also the most resource-intensive solution for a studio that can't even add back scenic UI panel.

And another occasion where people don't want to have to make a choice but simply be given everything on a silver platter with no work put into it.

This is Warhammer. If it's got the ability to be a Dragon at least have it start as the default form instead of just some dude/tte.

I like the idea of a toggle but each form should have its benefits. Currently and in most situations human form is just better, especially due to how unreliable the Dragon form is in combat at actually hitting anything.

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Celery#7483 wrote:

I like the idea of a toggle but each form should have its benefits. Currently and in most situations human form is just better, especially due to how unreliable the Dragon form is in combat at actually hitting anything.

I think that transforming into a dragon was meant to be a power spike in and of itself. The problem is they went about it too conservatively. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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Celery#7483 wrote:

I like the idea of a toggle but each form should have its benefits. Currently and in most situations human form is just better, especially due to how unreliable the Dragon form is in combat at actually hitting anything.

I think that transforming into a dragon was meant to be a power spike in and of itself. The problem is they went about it too conservatively. 

That was probably the intention, but as pointed out currently the dragon form is a power down as spells are too useful and the human form already a competent fighter.

Also I don't think designing one form as power spike is a good direction as unless you limit access to that form through time limits or resource cost there is no point in spending time in the other form.

Imo its better to use the transformation as variant of the hybrid lord concept.

Instead of being good at both like for example Malekith they should either be very good (sem) fighter without any spells or very good mages but with bad melee stats and a medium, but not punishing, cost to switch (cooldown, ect).