edit ive l have also seen sea route caravan mechanic suggested before that would also be super welcome for the faction as i love Chaos dwarfs and cathays 

oh and the HE gates getting a small rework would also be very welcome. 

Top priority for me is the addition of mechanics for Tyrion and Teclis, and better/reworked mechanics for Alarielle and Alith Anar, but I can't deny I'd also hope to see more uniqueness added to the race as a whole.

I made a thread on High Elf updates a few months back, but the OP is probably a bit long for it to be appropriate to copy-paste the whole thing, so I will instead link it to read for anyone who is interested: https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/6900-future-high-elves-update-discussion

It's been a while, but I think pretty much all of what I said there still stands.  Only a little overlap between your ideas and mine (spell mastery, climates, economy), but that's not a bad thing. :) High elf rework hype!

They totally phoned in the HE in terms of racial mechanics, even blessed spawnings are more useful and exciting than influence. 

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Passthechips#4366 wrote:

To be fair, it’s going to be harder to give the High Elves a comprehensive set of mechanics (which they dearly lack) as well as unique lord mechanics. The Empire only got unique LL mechanics, but the race itself is threadbare. Ogres got both, but they’re also a DLC race (that’s probably topping out at three characters) and that came at the expense of Greenskins getting nothing.

If it was a choice between High Elf mechanics or lord mechanics, I’d rather the High Elves get a deep set of race mechanics akin to the Dwarfs than Tyrion/Teclis getting special mechanics. The lords could possibly play into specialties within those introduced systems.

I'll not deny that bespoke mechanics for both faction and LLs is a big ask, and I don't think it's necessarily a realistic expectation on my part.  I can hope, though.  It's possible that even if we can't get everything I'd want to see in the DLC itself, some of it might be able to happen later in one of the smaller updates, as we've seen it suggested that Kislev and Bretonnia reworks will.

I remain leaning in the direction of preferring each LL getting their own mechanics, mostly because I think I'd be happier with every LL having decent mechanics than the race having decent mechanics.

If the race ends up with excellent mechanics but individual LLs remain mechanically bland, I'll be content because good HE content is good HE content, but I think CA hitting the mark of "excellent" is less likely than them managing "decent", and if all we get is decent race mechanics and no LL mechanics, I will be disappointed.

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Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

Top priority for me is the addition of mechanics for Tyrion and Teclis, and better/reworked mechanics for Alarielle and Alith Anar, but I can't deny I'd also hope to see more uniqueness added to the race as a whole.

I made a thread on High Elf updates a few months back, but the OP is probably a bit long for it to be appropriate to copy-paste the whole thing, so I will instead link it to read for anyone who is interested: https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/6900-future-high-elves-update-discussion

It's been a while, but I think pretty much all of what I said there still stands.  Only a little overlap between your ideas and mine (spell mastery, climates, economy), but that's not a bad thing. :) High elf rework hype!

Alith Anar should get same thing with aborting marked for death targets and having a enw one next turn that orgres get for their mercenary contracts. Also one of his starting targets is always the lord cylosytra kills off turn 1... It would also be nice if in addition to his faction having stalking stance and shadowrealm pathways that Alith Anar himself would also get them as lord effects so they get preserved if he gets confederated. Alith Anar is also the only faction in the game to have just 2 suitible climates. Give him temerpate island and  arguably mountain climate but change jungle and savannah to red. (maybe wasteland to unpleseant too) Also why does no faction in the entire game have savannah as a red climate?

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Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:
Alith Anar should get same thing with aborting marked for death targets and having a enw one next turn that orgres get for their mercenary contracts. Also one of his starting targets is always the lord cylosytra kills off turn 1... It would also be nice if in addition to his faction having stalking stance and shadowrealm pathways that Alith Anar himself would also get them as lord effects so they get preserved if he gets confederated. Alith Anar is also the only faction in the game to have just 2 suitible climates. Give him temerpate island and  arguably mountain climate but change jungle and savannah to red. (maybe wasteland to unpleseant too) Also why does no faction in the entire game have savannah as a red climate?

I'm not sure Marked for Death is even fundamentally a functional enough system with the current pace of the game for it to be worth upgrading rather than replacing.  It was designed in an era when money was worth more (less economic powercreep), influence was worth more (no influence from embassies or outposts), the map was smaller, and the pace of the game was slower (making it a more reasonable idea to send an assassin halfway across the map to snipe a target).  It's dubious whether the system is even worth engaging with in the current state of the game, and I don't think your proposed changes would necessarily do anything to fix that.

Agreed on stances sticking to the LL if he's confederated, and on his climate setup being overly restrictive, although I don't agree with downgrading wasteland to unpleasant - it seems deeply weird for his home province, lore-wise, to be suboptimal territory for him.

It'd also be a neat little change if Hands of the Shadow Crown were allowed to be embedded into armies.  They already have combat stats, so it doesn't seem like it would be a huge undertaking to change.

Amazing suggestions. So hyped for a HE rework

I really love the elf town mechanic, should give the city or town a small garrison of elves for the other faction

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Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

​

Faerie_Storm#3043 wrote:
Alith Anar should get same thing with aborting marked for death targets and having a enw one next turn that orgres get for their mercenary contracts. Also one of his starting targets is always the lord cylosytra kills off turn 1... It would also be nice if in addition to his faction having stalking stance and shadowrealm pathways that Alith Anar himself would also get them as lord effects so they get preserved if he gets confederated. Alith Anar is also the only faction in the game to have just 2 suitible climates. Give him temerpate island and  arguably mountain climate but change jungle and savannah to red. (maybe wasteland to unpleseant too) Also why does no faction in the entire game have savannah as a red climate?

I'm not sure Marked for Death is even fundamentally a functional enough system with the current pace of the game for it to be worth upgrading rather than replacing.  It was designed in an era when money was worth more (less economic powercreep), influence was worth more (no influence from embassies or outposts), the map was smaller, and the pace of the game was slower (making it a more reasonable idea to send an assassin halfway across the map to snipe a target).  It's dubious whether the system is even worth engaging with in the current state of the game, and I don't think your proposed changes would necessarily do anything to fix that.

Agreed on stances sticking to the LL if he's confederated, and on his climate setup being overly restrictive, although I don't agree with downgrading wasteland to unpleasant - it seems deeply weird for his home province, lore-wise, to be suboptimal territory for him.

It'd also be a neat little change if Hands of the Shadow Crown were allowed to be embedded into armies.  They already have combat stats, so it doesn't seem like it would be a huge undertaking to change.

I ment to say chaotic wasteland since he's always up fighting the dark elves who have that as a green climate. As for the marked for death targets it's always better to target ones that have secondary buffs if you can not just money and influence (which the influence still really helps for him early to get lords/heros without negative traits sooner)

A High elves caravans mechanic is a must for me, hope they imprement them more soon than later

​

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:

Loose ideas, all.

I copy and I paste:

The High Elf rework should prioritise political structures of Ulthuan. In order of importance:

​1. Ulthuan is ruled by the Twin Thrones, the Phoenix King and the Everqueen. Both hold their own courts which rival with each other. Both give importance to different spheres of rulership: Court of the Phoenix King - war-like and expansionist Court of the Everqueen - peaceful and introverted

•  Both courts would offer different bonuses through progress based on favoured actions. For example, felling enemies would award points with CotPK, while keeping high Public Order would benefit standing with CotE.
•  The player would participate in fights with NPCs over positions in both courts, balancing their standing. This is what dillemmata system should revolve around. It could work similar to Pharaoh's Royal Court or Chaos Dwarfs's Tower of Zharr. Of course, it wouldn't be possible to dethrone the Phoenix King and the Everqueen. Alarielle (and Finubar in case he becomes playable) should have unique interactions with these mechanics.
• It should be possible to use influence to affect diplomacy, forge and break alliances, maneuver allies and enemies into wars. 

2.  The Ten Kingdoms system akin to Empire's Imperial Authority and Fealty. While the Asur do fight with each other in the lore, it makes little sense for them to murder each other in order to unite. Allow players to build relationships between the kingdoms with the use of actions and dillemmata. Give them special RoRs for achieving certain goals, for example SEM White Lion for forging bond with Chrace. 

3. Naval caravans & Elftowns. Players would establish Elftowns in port cities and upgrade them by completing caravan missions. Upgrades affecting host settlement would require additional influence cost. Elftowns would generate influence, open better allied recruitment, provide greater income, and maybe allow to affect choice of buildings made by NPC factons. Protecting sea lanes would increase their stability rating and increase benefits from caravans. Failing the task would do the opposite. 

4. The Great Vortex & Waystones restoration. Players would preserve the Waystone network and reduce the presence of Chaos in the world. The stronger the Great Vortex the weaker Winds of Magic become, except for those who rule over it. Chaos races would benefit from destroying Waystones and unbinding the Great Vortex.

I copy, and I paste, again:

​As for Tyrion specifically, when CA create the Twin Thrones mechanic, then the Dragon of Cothique could have his own special council attached to the Court of the Phoenix King:

Other than that, I would like to see an option allowing to have him as LH in Alarielle's army.

And again:

​When the High Elves get the Twin Thrones update, Alarielle should get acces to extra functionality of the Court of the Everqueen. Considering how lacklustre FLC format is, it would be somewhat (barely, really) tolerable for her to get an additional simple UI where she could either upgrade her court and/or take actions.

She should have access to a special stance called the Court of the Everqueen that combines encamp, channeling and her provincial bonuses. It should be properly represented on the campaign map with silken pavilions.

As for Teclis:

Give him the White Tower of Hoeth mechanic. Maybe allow him to recruit the Loremasters of Hoeth as Ls, just like they were on TT.

Hm. I think I will make a thread on the subject one day.

​

Damn these are awesome ideas I’d be happy to see this just copy pasted into the game. 

​

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:

Top priority for me is the addition of mechanics for Tyrion and Teclis, and better/reworked mechanics for Alarielle and Alith Anar, but I can't deny I'd also hope to see more uniqueness added to the race as a whole.

I made a thread on High Elf updates a few months back, but the OP is probably a bit long for it to be appropriate to copy-paste the whole thing, so I will instead link it to read for anyone who is interested: https://community.creative-assembly.com/total-war/total-war-warhammer/forums/8-general-discussion/threads/6900-future-high-elves-update-discussion

It's been a while, but I think pretty much all of what I said there still stands.  Only a little overlap between your ideas and mine (spell mastery, climates, economy), but that's not a bad thing. :) High elf rework hype!

Thats a great thing if we are providing similar feedback to CA it helps give them a clearer vison on what to prioritize!

​

Passthechips#4366 wrote:

​

Steelclaw#6359 wrote:
LLs with no unique mechanics are boring and stale, and I find it hard to bring myself to play them even if I like their lore.  I don't think any race should have that "baseline" experience, and the changes to Empire and Ogres making it so that no LL in either of those races does make me hopeful that the same could happen for High Elves.  Tyrion requires a degree of creativity to figure out what unique mechanics would work well for him but it would be far from impossible to give him something appropriate and interesting.

To be fair, it’s going to be harder to give the High Elves a comprehensive set of mechanics (which they dearly lack) as well as unique lord mechanics. The Empire only got unique LL mechanics, but the race itself is threadbare. Ogres got both, but they’re also a DLC race (that’s probably topping out at three characters) and that came at the expense of Greenskins getting nothing.

If it was a choice between High Elf mechanics or lord mechanics, I’d rather the High Elves get a deep set of race mechanics akin to the Dwarfs than Tyrion/Teclis getting special mechanics. The lords could possibly play into specialties within those introduced systems.

I mean it doesnt have to be anything big though the difference between gelt and volkmar before their mechanics and after was so fantastic in my mind and all volkmar got was being added to a existing mechanic haha. Just a smaller easy faction mechanic or a still small but dope one like the one gelt got is all im looking for and is totally possible to come with race mechanics. They've gone back and added in little tweaks to lords all the time including DW lords and EMP lords are examples off the top of my head. But yes better race mechanics should be prioritized cause that has been so huge for DW and EMP but i dont think we will have to sacrifice tyrion and teclis getting little ones as well as they desperately need it and would benefit so much from really anything haha

​

Maedrethnir#1968 wrote:

Loose ideas, all.

I copy and I paste:

The High Elf rework should prioritise political structures of Ulthuan. In order of importance:

​1. Ulthuan is ruled by the Twin Thrones, the Phoenix King and the Everqueen. Both hold their own courts which rival with each other. Both give importance to different spheres of rulership: Court of the Phoenix King - war-like and expansionist Court of the Everqueen - peaceful and introverted

•  Both courts would offer different bonuses through progress based on favoured actions. For example, felling enemies would award points with CotPK, while keeping high Public Order would benefit standing with CotE.
•  The player would participate in fights with NPCs over positions in both courts, balancing their standing. This is what dillemmata system should revolve around. It could work similar to Pharaoh's Royal Court or Chaos Dwarfs's Tower of Zharr. Of course, it wouldn't be possible to dethrone the Phoenix King and the Everqueen. Alarielle (and Finubar in case he becomes playable) should have unique interactions with these mechanics.
• It should be possible to use influence to affect diplomacy, forge and break alliances, maneuver allies and enemies into wars. 

2.  The Ten Kingdoms system akin to Empire's Imperial Authority and Fealty. While the Asur do fight with each other in the lore, it makes little sense for them to murder each other in order to unite. Allow players to build relationships between the kingdoms with the use of actions and dillemmata. Give them special RoRs for achieving certain goals, for example SEM White Lion for forging bond with Chrace. 

3. Naval caravans & Elftowns. Players would establish Elftowns in port cities and upgrade them by completing caravan missions. Upgrades affecting host settlement would require additional influence cost. Elftowns would generate influence, open better allied recruitment, provide greater income, and maybe allow to affect choice of buildings made by NPC factons. Protecting sea lanes would increase their stability rating and increase benefits from caravans. Failing the task would do the opposite. 

4. The Great Vortex & Waystones restoration. Players would preserve the Waystone network and reduce the presence of Chaos in the world. The stronger the Great Vortex the weaker Winds of Magic become, except for those who rule over it. Chaos races would benefit from destroying Waystones and unbinding the Great Vortex.

I copy, and I paste, again:

​As for Tyrion specifically, when CA create the Twin Thrones mechanic, then the Dragon of Cothique could have his own special council attached to the Court of the Phoenix King:

Other than that, I would like to see an option allowing to have him as LH in Alarielle's army.

And again:

​When the High Elves get the Twin Thrones update, Alarielle should get acces to extra functionality of the Court of the Everqueen. Considering how lacklustre FLC format is, it would be somewhat (barely, really) tolerable for her to get an additional simple UI where she could either upgrade her court and/or take actions.

She should have access to a special stance called the Court of the Everqueen that combines encamp, channeling and her provincial bonuses. It should be properly represented on the campaign map with silken pavilions.

As for Teclis:

Give him the White Tower of Hoeth mechanic. Maybe allow him to recruit the Loremasters of Hoeth as Ls, just like they were on TT.

Hm. I think I will make a thread on the subject one day.

i really like the idea of the caravans upgrading the elfs towns. That would be a cool spin on the existing mechanic and sounds like the player would be like oh do i go and get my bretonia elf colonys beefed up first or would i rather get my WE ones stronger instead. Very cool