Right now it is...

- Arbaal name goes from Arbaal the Undefeated to Arbaal the Defeated

Its a knife in the gut, but doesn't effect anything

- Tiny debuff of -30 relations with Khorne factions

A consequence for babies. 

Quick and easy solution since turning him into a spawn is off the table

- Keep the Arbaal name goes from Arbaal the Undefeated to Arbaal the Defeated. 

- All Khornate factions declare war (no diplomacy, no confederations)

There, an actual consequence for Arbaal being defeated. If you dont like consequence in strategy game, u baby.

we only killerz up in here homeboy

How is this an improvement? Khorneate factions are not present where Arbaal plays. 

I'm honestly not sure if I have a better one...still drying my tears after finding out there is no chaos spawn after loss. :( The amount of memes I would make with that would be quite something, I have no idea why CA didn't just do that. It would have been fun. 

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

How is this an improvement? Khorneate factions are not present where Arbaal plays. 

I'm honestly not sure if I have a better one...still drying my tears after finding out there is no chaos spawn after loss. :( The amount of memes I would make with that would be quite something, I have no idea why CA didn't just do that. It would have been fun. 

The chaos spawn thing is sad but I get why they did it. Maybe a mod will help us out.

But its better than -30 diplo, who cares about that. Not being able to confederate, that is an actual consequence tho.

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NickCageStoleMyFace#5594 wrote:

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

How is this an improvement? Khorneate factions are not present where Arbaal plays. 

I'm honestly not sure if I have a better one...still drying my tears after finding out there is no chaos spawn after loss. :( The amount of memes I would make with that would be quite something, I have no idea why CA didn't just do that. It would have been fun. 

The chaos spawn thing is sad but I get why they did it. Maybe a mod will help us out.

But its better than -30 diplo, who cares about that. Not being able to confederate, that is an actual consequence tho.

You do? I don't. Why did they do that? Mods are fun for sure.

I guess there is merit in that, yeah. Although personally I like the confeds. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Khorne is a wuss.

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Biggles#4266 wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Khorne is a wuss.

He was cool once, before the dark times.

- Arbaal loses all his blessing from Khorne. -25% weapon strength, armor, MD and MA for Arbaal

- Factionwide -5 leadership debuff for 20 turns

- Factionwide -5 PO for 20 turns

- Upkeep increases by 15% (all armies)

- Maybe too complex: All units under Arbaal lose the Mark of Khorne

- Maybe too harsh: Arbaal loses access to demonic units

If Khorne's punition is indeed to turn Arbaal into a mere human, then Arbaal should feel like one.

One line I do not want to cross: Let's not ask for a mechanic to then get back Khorne's favor. The character is not about being a defeated warrior looking for new honors, so it shouldn't be a part of his mechanic.

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

- Arbaal loses all his blessing from Khorne. -25% weapon strength, armor, MD and MA for Arbaal

- Factionwide -5 leadership debuff for 20 turns

- Factionwide -5 PO for 20 turns

- Upkeep increases by 15% (all armies)

- Maybe too complex: All units under Arbaal lose the Mark of Khorne

- Maybe too harsh: Arbaal loses access to demonic units

If Khorne's punition is indeed to turn Arbaal into a mere human, then Arbaal should feel like one.

One line I do not want to cross: Let's not ask for a mechanic to then get back Khorne's favor. The character is not about being a defeated warrior looking for new honors, so it shouldn't be a part of his mechanic.

Too complex, it would be easier to just give him woc units or whatever. Not going to happen probably. 

Maybe if CA could do Chaos Spawn transformation and just turn all units into Spawns and turn all buildings, to recruit Chaos Spawns xDD That would be hilarious. 

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MalalTheRenegade#5644 wrote:

- Arbaal loses all his blessing from Khorne. -25% weapon strength, armor, MD and MA for Arbaal

- Factionwide -5 leadership debuff for 20 turns

- Factionwide -5 PO for 20 turns

- Upkeep increases by 15% (all armies)

- Maybe too complex: All units under Arbaal lose the Mark of Khorne

- Maybe too harsh: Arbaal loses access to demonic units

If Khorne's punition is indeed to turn Arbaal into a mere human, then Arbaal should feel like one.

One line I do not want to cross: Let's not ask for a mechanic to then get back Khorne's favor. The character is not about being a defeated warrior looking for new honors, so it shouldn't be a part of his mechanic.

No one is (or rather very few people are) willingly going to continue a campaign with such downsides just because they lost their LL. At that point people would just restart their campaigns. Hence why the Dilemma effectively does the same thing. 

I'm not sure why they changed the game over option to being turned into a human instead of a Spawn.  It's not like there's a mechanical difference.  The campaign ends anyway, so why didn't they go with the loreful Spawn explanation?

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

I'm not sure why they changed the game over option to being turned into a human instead of a Spawn.  It's not like there's a mechanical difference.  The campaign ends anyway, so why didn't they go with the loreful Spawn explanation?

Neither iteration exists in the game. The only things that happen are the trait changes and relation nerfs. 

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

I'm not sure why they changed the game over option to being turned into a human instead of a Spawn.  It's not like there's a mechanical difference.  The campaign ends anyway, so why didn't they go with the loreful Spawn explanation?

Neither iteration exists in the game. The only things that happen are the trait changes and relation nerfs. 

There are mods which do the same things. It's fairly easy to do with scripts. 

IMO he should turn into a spawn, lose his leadership effects and all Khorne factions should declare war on him (not that it will matter much).

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Enforest#2212 wrote:

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

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DarthEnderX-#6513 wrote:

I'm not sure why they changed the game over option to being turned into a human instead of a Spawn.  It's not like there's a mechanical difference.  The campaign ends anyway, so why didn't they go with the loreful Spawn explanation?

Neither iteration exists in the game. The only things that happen are the trait changes and relation nerfs. 

There are mods which do the same things. It's fairly easy to do with scripts. 

IMO he should turn into a spawn, lose his leadership effects and all Khorne factions should declare war on him (not that it will matter much).

I know, NickCage showed me such. 

Some consequence would be better than none, I am neither sure why CA didn't do this if it is easy or why there is a Chaos Spawn summon ability when Arbaal drops health. Are CA trying to help out the player? 

I would like much harsher negatives. But I would also like a method for mitigating them. Such as doing what youw ere supposed to be doing going out and slaughtering quality opponents. Including the lord that made you the Defeated.

I absolutely agree, I wanted to make such thread too.

My proposal:

- 60 relations with Khorne factions and they gain vision on you for extra humilitation

- 30 with all other chaos factions

- MINUS 10 leadership in all your armies

- Spawn of Khorne is now 50% cheaper to recruit factionwide and 50% cheaper in upkeep (seems fitting)

I can get why they didn’t have any permanent punishment that was too harsh, otherwise not very many people would bother finishing an Arbaal campaign if they were permanently punished too hard just for losing one battle. I think if there was a harsher but temporary punishment, then that would’ve been fine. 

Maybe every time you lose as Arbaal, for 5 turns after you have increased costs for Buildings, Recruitment Cost, and Upkeep factionwide and all armies suffer a Leadership penalty, or something. For 5 turns after you revive him, he’s a unique-looking Chaos Spawn. After 5 turns after losing, the penalties go away and everything goes back to normal. After 5 turns with Arbaal as a Chaos Spawn, he goes back to normal.

The -30 diplomatic relations with Khorne factions can stay, but that should only be after the first time you lose and shouldn’t stack each time you lose.

I can get that a lot of people dont care about his gimmick and would like to just continue the campaign after a defeat, but still I feel cheated after reading and getting hyped about that whole test about Arbaal being disgraced just for a -30 relationships. There should be a third option for people who want to keep playing but dealing with actual consecuences for the defeat. 

Honestly Arbaal was going to be my first campaign but I dont think I will play him until a mod that makes him an actual spawn appears.

This is another thing that can be tuned by campaign difficulty. Above Normal could have some other consequences, which don't necessarily even need to be new debuffs. The additional consequences could just be removing faction or lord buffs and otherwise neutralizing benefits.

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Djau#5149 wrote:

It'd be interesting if he lost, he gets turned into a unique Legendary Hero for the rest of the campaign.  A Legendary Hero spawn.  His faction bonuses switch to having huge debuffs to Daemon units, loses all of his bonuses for Mortal units and is replaced by bonuses to Blood Beasts, Spawn of Khorne and Forsaken of Khorne.  He can buff them a crazy amount.

The penalty will be almost impossible to use Daemon units, weaker Mortal units barring Spawn/Forsaken/Blood Beasts and the lack of a Legendary Lord.  This would be considerably a more difficult campaign, but yet actually fun.

That is a fantastic idea, would be unique and super fun!