Ca, we saw the ogres get their missing magic, that's wonderful. But please don't forget Cathy and Tzeentch. They are the two most magical races in the game but there are only the fewest kinds of magic, that's a shame. From a set point of lore it is reasonable and correct for these two races to have all the eight winds magic. So I hope you can consider adding more eight-wind magic to these two races, it's not that difficult. Oh. and the wood elves and the dark elves also need.

Sure. Or High Elves. Or Dark Elves. Or Wood Elves. And the full spellbooks for Teclis, Kairos, Alarielle, Malekith and Morathi.

Etc etc 

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TipherethAB#2295 wrote:

Ca, we saw the ogres get their missing magic, that's wonderful. But please don't forget Cathy and Tzeentch. They are the two most magical races in the game but there are only the fewest kinds of magic, that's a shame. From a set point of lore it is reasonable and correct for these two races to have all the eight winds magic. So I hope you can consider adding more eight-wind magic to these two races, it's not that difficult. Oh. and the wood elves and the dark elves also need.

I suspect that Grand Cathay will get more lores of magic as they get more content. I personally think that they should get their own bespoke lores of magic based on their interpretation of the winds of magic. They are not the Elves. They didn't attend THEIR colleges of magic, and therefore wouldn't have the same interpretation of the wind of ghur, for example. They CERTAINLY weren't stupid enough to let another race come in and tell them how they ought to interpret the winds of magic. That would be ridiculous AND pathetic if someone allowed THAT to happen to themselves. Which is all-the-more reason for them to manifest their affinity with the winds of magic in a distinctly eastern realms kind of way. 

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

I can't find my idea of Occult Library, but if CA don't feel like implementing anything magic related for Tzeentch, as for contrast to the Skull Throne, then I personally would be fine with more magic lores. I wouldn't be getting too upset about a lack of secondary main mechanic, but I'm no actual fan of Tzeentch.

Tzeentch and Slaanesh both definitely need a new race-wide mechanic.  Tzeentch's Changing of the Ways and Slaanesh's Seduction are both very light mechanics and aren't particularly flashy in the way the Nurgle's Cauldron (post-ToD) is nor Khorne's Skulls for the Skull Throne.  Both those are fun and impactful.  Tzeentch's and Slaanesh's are both far more muted.

I'd like Tzeentch to get something with its own bespoke UI thats a bit bigger and remove Changing of the Ways (or, at worst, if can't...at least replace some of the abilities with actually useful stuff).

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Djau#5149 wrote:

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TopKek#2685 wrote:

I can't find my idea of Occult Library, but if CA don't feel like implementing anything magic related for Tzeentch, as for contrast to the Skull Throne, then I personally would be fine with more magic lores. I wouldn't be getting too upset about a lack of secondary main mechanic, but I'm no actual fan of Tzeentch.

Tzeentch and Slaanesh both definitely need a new race-wide mechanic.  Tzeentch's Changing of the Ways and Slaanesh's Seduction are both very light mechanics and aren't particularly flashy in the way the Nurgle's Cauldron (post-ToD) is nor Khorne's Skulls for the Skull Throne.  Both those are fun and impactful.  Tzeentch's and Slaanesh's are both far more muted.

I'd like Tzeentch to get something with its own bespoke UI thats a bit bigger and remove Changing of the Ways (or, at worst, if can't...at least replace some of the abilities with actually useful stuff).

I don't necessarily disagree with your desire for something different for Tzeentch, but to call the Changing of the Ways not 'useful' is... weird. You have complete control of the campaign map with it. After you unlock it, you will never be in a war against your will, you can prevent the AI from touching vulnerable settlements in several ways, and more. It might not be what you want, but it's incredibly useful.

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Djau#5149 wrote:

But how often does that set up come up? and how often is it needed?  I can't think legitimately of a time where I've had to use Force Peace once in campaign.  I attack a faction when I know I can beat it, and once Kairos expands a little, other factions become less of a problem.

Even Kairo's annoying start isn't bad enough to require it.  I just funnel my Grimoires for tech and city-swapping.

Force Peace doesn’t require much set up, it’s cheap enough and staves off Oxyotl so you can invade North up much faster. As for setting up the rest of the abilities, it’s excessively easy with the new cracked Cult building that reduces Grimoire costs. To the point where it makes campaigns boring because I can click a button to solve a problem. 

One doesn’t need them to win a campaign, but that’s more because campaigns are easy enough to begin with. That doesn’t mean they aren’t incredibly powerful abilities.

Djau#5149 wrote:
For the most part, Vilitch's Changing set up is more useful with more meaningful, visual benefits.  What I'd love is a Changing of the Way ability that works like Bolt of Change from Vermintide.  Target a unit in your army and a random chance to convert it to a one tier higher unit...or a Spawn.

TBH, this feels like it would end up being a cheesy way to upgrade your army depending on the cost and cooldown. Though if it was long enough could be a fun gimmick. 

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vanitas-lux#8579 wrote:

I do agree that the changing of the ways seems a bit too dry when it comes to the execution.

what could be done could be to iterate on the design and the interaction with corruption to increase the effects or add new and random effects (tzeench being the most and least chaotic god at the same time  is not really represented in game).

Adding negative effects to represent tzeench trolling the player is not a good idea, but maybe teleporting a random neutral faction to the target or popping a dilemma for you to interact with at high corruption would be funny

To fall back on the title:

I expect Cathay to get other lores with their next lords or the update and tzeench could get  race specific items that grant you bound spells of other schools (inspired by kairos system but additive and for spells not found in currently existing generic items) but outside of egrimm adding the lore of light I do not see them get a full new school (unless ca gives them an OC LH with a new lore )

I definitely agree.  At the very least, it needs an Ikit claw looking UI thats a bit more interesting to interact with.  I think they should rip the system out and replace it with something much closer to Gelt's mechanic.

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DreamTraveler3#2244 wrote:

I'm all for this as well. Especially in the case of Cathay.

Honestly the idea of Cathayan versions of spells is a cool one that I and likely many others have had as well. Things like having a Lore of Metal spell that summons telekinetic swords similar to Zhao Ming's attacks in Dragon form for example or Life spells that feel more like the Water spells that Miao Ying's supposed to have based on the Cathayan interpretation of Wuxing would be cool.

Because remember, in Cathay:

Lore of Life = Lore of Water (Water's a part of the Wind of Life)

Lore of Fire = Lore of Fire

Lore of Beasts = Lore of Wood (Somehow, you'd think plants like trees would also be a part of Life, but I guess they're both "wild".)

Lore of Metal = Lore of Metal

Lore of Heavens = Lore of Stone (Earth) (Via the dropped comets of Comet of Casandora, also known as the "Meteor Winds".

Though how you develop a whole lore based on just one spell is confusing to me. I'd assume there'd be a way to create other stone/Earth-based spells from it.)

Lore of Light = Lore of Light

Lore of Death = Lore of Spirit

Lore of Shadows = Lore of Darkness

Having unique interpretations of all these lores would be awesome...though it's also something that would likely have to be done by Games Workshop in terms of making them official, as well as Creative Assembly by making them all into Total War-style spells with fun animations. So yeah, a lot of work. It'd be really fun to do though. ^_^

Really I'm of the opinion that a Lore of Water and Earth are things that should be created and useable by multiple factions in the game/lore since they're such basic core elements in most fictional settings.

Games Workshop would probably have to at least permit the creation of a different interpretation of the winds of magic, but I don't think that it has to go any further than that. Most of the lores of magic are condensed into a much narrower selection of spells. There are plenty of other uses for the existing lores of magic. Even the lore behind the reasons that we have the current spell selection indicates that it was once far more diverse prior to the standardizing of magic --which does not apply to Grand Cathay. So, in truth the case for different interpretations of the winds of magic for Grand Cathay actually makes itself. 

They are not dumb enough to let an entirely different kingdom come along and tell them how to their affairs. They are from a lineage that predates the other races. I'm pretty confident that the Monkey Warriors of Grand Cathay are from a time before the coming of Chaos and are not in fact "Beastmen; but in the west". It's incredibly unlikely that they would wield the winds in the same way as those that came after them. They have an entirely different story to tell than the old worlders. 

They already have the Dragon's Breath, Wall of Wind and Fire, and Might of Heaven and Earth as a foundation for a bespoke lore of fire for Grand Cathay. A couple of heal spells, a debuff spell or a magic missile spell or even a summon spell and just like that, a Cathayan interpretation of Aqshy. 

 New Lores for Tzeentch that I want:

Light: Egrimm van Horstmann full Lore of Light with the Cataclysm spell too.

Beasts: Tzaangor Bray-Shaman 

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DreamTraveler3#2244 wrote:

A list of Cathayan lores, their cultural history, and some ideas for spells is something I definitely want to write when I have more time to do so after the holidays.

For now though, I will say that I think there’s probably a more effective way to approach how they write the Lore of Heavens lore wise. Because in terms of Wuxing “air” is an element that exists…but not on its own. The other elements do incorporate aspects of it though.

If it were me, I’d write a story about how the Dragon Emperor chose the Lore of Heavens as his personal/preferred lore and decided to literally claim it on his kingdom’s behalf. In the west the followers of the Old Ones (like the Slann of the Lizardmen and Truthsayers of Albion) developed “Earthbound Magic” like Geomancy by channeling the Winds of Magic into the ground, having the land absorb them to power spells and things like the Geomantic Web. They do this likely because Earth is a very unchaotic, sturdy, and unchanging element that would likely not come as naturally from the Realm of Chaos.

https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Earthbound_Magic

Xen Yang and Quai Yin meanwhile could’ve done something similar with just the Wind of Heavens. By binding the Wind (at least around Cathay) underground and having it overtime become seen as “The Wind of Earth”. With that, Yuan Bo as its representative becomes a full blown Earth Dragon with power over the land itself (through earthquakes, fissures, boulders, earth armor, walls that block line of sight and movement, stone spikes, summoning terracotta soldiers, and other spell ideas) and also crystals (like jade) within it. I think that’d be rather fitting for the ruler of the beautiful and verdant Central Provinces.

Meanwhile the Lore of Heavens could continue to persist as a part of the other Lores of Magic (It’s in the ground everywhere so they can channel it in different ways.) Finally, it could also still persist as its own lore as an additional idea…but changed so that it becomes a very special lore only practiced by the Astromancers of Wei-Jin. The Dragon parents, in addition to capturing the Wind of Heavens underground, could’ve also turned their palace into a siphon for it that absorbs it from the ground when it emerges through the soil. (Or just nabs a portion of it from the Winds that enter the country from abroad.) This would turn it into a “Celestial Wind”-themed lore used by only the Emperor’s chosen.

The Wu Xing Compass could also maybe redirect this siphoned “celestial” wind and blow it across Cathay, for it to eventually be absorbed by the earth yet again. Creating a cycle of its distribution between the heavens (the Imperial Palace) and earth (Yuan Bo’s domain).

The lore of Heavens is directly tied to the earth in Grand Cathay. In fact the lore of Yang actually does incorporate the lore of Heaven into itself. The threads are already there. I think that the lores of magic in Grand Cathay were implemented before they had the inclination to do a full on interpretation of the winds of magic from a non-old world perspective. The bones are there though.