​​The special skill "Hammer of Wei-Jin" of the Celestial General provides 10 points of melee attack, 60% weapon strength, and a 10% weapon strength bonus to the lord's army. This far exceeds the skill points of lords with similar roles in other factions, such as the Beastmen (which only grants a 10% weapon strength bonus to the lord's army) and the Chaos Warriors (which only provides 5 points of melee attack and 50 fixed armor-piercing damage). 

Was this skill intentionally designed by the development team to be this powerful, or was there a mistake where 60 points of fixed armor-piercing damage was written as a 60% weapon strength bonus?

Yeah that skill is wayyyy too strong and needs to be looked at.

His hammer is big tho.

I was playing as Greasus against Cathay both MP skirmish and MP campaign and both times I won easily. I wouldn't even call it powercreep.

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KhaineIncarnate#6730 wrote:

I don't think it's unintentional, considering Cathay characters are not that strong in melee. 

Celestial General is arguably one of the best generic melee lord in the game. 

It is a bit weird how insanely strong that trait is... I don't know how good fighters with or without it they are, though, nor do I remember the other traits locked out by that choice, but it seems a bit odd how big an impact just one trait has. If you're lucky as a dark elf, for instance, with a lord focused name of power you might get 20% weapon strength + magical weapon or regeneration or something, but never really anything close to this extent :D

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Neodeinos#5871 wrote:

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KhaineIncarnate#6730 wrote:

I don't think it's unintentional, considering Cathay characters are not that strong in melee. 

Celestial General is arguably one of the best generic melee lord in the game. 

Every DLC generic lord is the strongest lord in the game in what they do.

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Funzo#7954 wrote:
I really think that many of the people that have a lot of criticisms about a given aspect of the game are just looking at numbers. There's very little reason to ever recruit this guy over either the other lords in the roster

Unless you actually want your general to hit stuff, which is now a good thing to do with flying monsters Cathay has.

Still loses to chorf lords which is weird as stat wise hes way better... 

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hurricane501#1568 wrote:

Still loses to chorf lords which is weird as stat wise hes way better... 

That's what I keep saying to -- and about -- this community; play the actual game and stop railing about stat distributions and theoretical outcomes. He is not that good. 

The percentage seems big, but due to his lower base weapon strength it does not really make a difference, he still is stays notably weaker than the options of other races.

It should also be noted that the yellow line of the Beastmen has notably stronger base skill of other races, they get 30% instead of 20% for HP and WS, while also having 2 full melee defense skills and an army wide fatigue reduction. So no, this does not need to be changed, especially as you compare a duelist (the only one available in this faction) to the generalist of an other faction.

If you want to see an OP skill, check out "Flesh Sacrifice" on the Sorcerer Prophet, a single skill point for unbreakable+perfect vigour on a flying character with ranged attack, an incredible melee mount and access to unlimited WoM.

CA are not stopping powercrept DLC additions, more powerful LLs are expected either way. Neither are they nerfing things anytime soon.

Best just strap on and wait until they look at the campaign as a whole and consider how it should work. 

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buggy_environment#6687 wrote:

The percentage seems big, but due to his lower base weapon strength it does not really make a difference, he still is stays notably weaker than the options of other races.

It should also be noted that the yellow line of the Beastmen has notably stronger base skill of other races, they get 30% instead of 20% for HP and WS, while also having 2 full melee defense skills and an army wide fatigue reduction. So no, this does not need to be changed, especially as you compare a duelist (the only one available in this faction) to the generalist of an other faction.

If you want to see an OP skill, check out "Flesh Sacrifice" on the Sorcerer Prophet, a single skill point for unbreakable+perfect vigour on a flying character with ranged attack, an incredible melee mount and access to unlimited WoM.

Oh no, it's as big as it sounds. It's 60% weapon strength, not 60% base weapon strength. 

I mean it does make him hit harder than elven lords on dragons, so it's not nothing :D 

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buggy_environment#6687 wrote:

The percentage seems big, but due to his lower base weapon strength it does not really make a difference, he still is stays notably weaker than the options of other races.

It should also be noted that the yellow line of the Beastmen has notably stronger base skill of other races, they get 30% instead of 20% for HP and WS, while also having 2 full melee defense skills and an army wide fatigue reduction. So no, this does not need to be changed, especially as you compare a duelist (the only one available in this faction) to the generalist of an other faction.

If you want to see an OP skill, check out "Flesh Sacrifice" on the Sorcerer Prophet, a single skill point for unbreakable+perfect vigour on a flying character with ranged attack, an incredible melee mount and access to unlimited WoM.

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buggy_environment#6687 wrote:

The percentage seems big, but due to his lower base weapon strength it does not really make a difference, he still is stays notably weaker than the options of other races.

It should also be noted that the yellow line of the Beastmen has notably stronger base skill of other races, they get 30% instead of 20% for HP and WS, while also having 2 full melee defense skills and an army wide fatigue reduction. So no, this does not need to be changed, especially as you compare a duelist (the only one available in this faction) to the generalist of an other faction.

If you want to see an OP skill, check out "Flesh Sacrifice" on the Sorcerer Prophet, a single skill point for unbreakable+perfect vigour on a flying character with ranged attack, an incredible melee mount and access to unlimited WoM.

​Similarly, in what aspects is the base weapon strength of The Celestial General inferior? Compared to the Empire General, Bretonnian Lord, or Orc Warboss?

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Aneerah#2767 wrote:

It is a bit weird how insanely strong that trait is... I don't know how good fighters with or without it they are, though, nor do I remember the other traits locked out by that choice, but it seems a bit odd how big an impact just one trait has. If you're lucky as a dark elf, for instance, with a lord focused name of power you might get 20% weapon strength + magical weapon or regeneration or something, but never really anything close to this extent :D

The main problem with this guy -- and the Gate Master -- is that there's a "correct" choice between the three options. The choice in question, is the only one that simply makes sense; it makes him better at what he is already doing. The other two "choices" are weird and abstract. 

Not only does he have a correct choice between the three nodes, the buffs that he gives to his army are also negligible or located in a node that doesn't have synergy with the army. Plus 10 armor is nice, but I don't immediately see a need for additional weapon strength or a greater charge bonus in a Cathayan army. These buffs should be decoupled from his personal buffs and given the same lockout treatment as his personal buffs. Even with something like that, there's still going to be a "correct" choice for a Cathayan army, it seems. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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Aneerah#2767 wrote:

It is a bit weird how insanely strong that trait is... I don't know how good fighters with or without it they are, though, nor do I remember the other traits locked out by that choice, but it seems a bit odd how big an impact just one trait has. If you're lucky as a dark elf, for instance, with a lord focused name of power you might get 20% weapon strength + magical weapon or regeneration or something, but never really anything close to this extent :D

The main problem with this guy -- and the Gate Master -- is that there's a "correct" choice between the three options. The choice in question, is the only one that simply makes sense; it makes him better at what he is already doing. The other two "choices" are weird and abstract. 

Not only does he have a correct choice between the three nodes, the buffs that he gives to his army are also negligible or located in a node that doesn't have synergy with the army. Plus 10 armor is nice, but I don't immediately see a need for additional weapon strength or a greater charge bonus in a Cathayan army. These buffs should be decoupled from his personal buffs and given the same lockout treatment as his personal buffs. Even with something like that, there's still going to be a "correct" choice for a Cathayan army, it seems. 

There is some synergy with the charging skill for his army with his mount, so him having devasting flanker and the Roar to reduce leadership kind of makes him effective at breaking units. It also makes Cathay cavalry actually good at charging so it's not as useless. 

I think that missile block chance also helps with doomstacking Celestial Lions if you need protection from missiles when you rush on units. Its kind of fine in that regard for keeping him alive from missiles.