Just did a few tests w chariots and they are insanely OP? crush infantry isnt surprising but they also soundly beat cavalry and beat monstrous infantry. The only way to beat them in melee is SEMs who in turn crush them. Seems like they need a big ol nerf to the grinding damage vs large?

To clarify; tests were done w 10 chariots against equal value opponents. When piloted by AI it spreads out the units and does a lot of standing still vs infantry. But piloted by human in mobile blobs of chariots they are simply OP

​

RawSugar#1229 wrote:

Just did a few tests w chariots and they are insanely OP? crush infantry isnt surprising but they also soundly beat cavalry and beat monstrous infantry. The only way to beat them in melee is SEMs who in turn crush them. Seems like they need a big ol nerf to the grinding damage vs large?

To clarify; tests were done w 10 chariots against equal value opponents. When piloted by AI it spreads out the units and does a lot of standing still vs infantry. But piloted by human in mobile blobs of chariots they are simply OP

This is the absolute opposite of my experience. Some single entity character chariots like Chariot of the Gods can duel well vs other characters but that's it. They get rekt by mass.

And I wrote you, that you're wrong. AI chariots were always stronger. 

You're not supposed to stack them. Leave them as they are, they were weak when human controlled.

​

RawSugar#1229 wrote:

what i write is you dont need to cyclecharge. they just need to move next to or into units to do collision damage, this is fine vs infantry but it should not be a thing vs large. Atm they soundly beat cavalry. cavalry should beat chariots, otherwise the upside to chariots is insane. it might not be a huge issue in MP because you cant really blob them as you only get 4. In SP its madness. 

Ok, so what do you suggest to change? I already suggested weapon damage nerfs and I'm against mass nerfs because of how cycle charging works in the game.

test was orc boar chariots vs reiksguard, fimir and mammoths,

also ithimar vs silver helms, cold ones chaos knights

only mammoths won, fimir put up a fought but lost pretty hard, cold ones as well. the others were annihilated

You have to blob them.... no cyclechages just grind the enemy in a blob

I cant entirely rule out that poor ai piloting is affecting outcomes  but i dont see how it would greatly impact the result....and cavalry should be strong enough vs chariots that they'd still win

​

RawSugar#1229 wrote:

test was orc boar chariots vs reiksguard, fimir and mammoths,

also ithimar vs silver helms, cold ones chaos knights

only mammoths won, fimir put up a fought but lost pretty hard, cold ones as well. the others were annihilated

You have to blob them.... no cyclechages just grind the enemy in a blob

I cant entirely rule out that poor ai piloting is affecting outcomes  but i dont see how it would greatly impact the result....and cavalry should be strong enough vs chariots that they'd still win

Pretty sure it's poor AI since it tries to cycle cav when it shouldn't.I find that if you just leave the cav in a grind with an attack order on a chariot they win handily. But the AI doesn't like to keep chariots blobbed once they start losing so hard to say for sure. They started blobbed here before the AI pulled them apart. But just from a math point even with 3 chariots grouped they shouldn't out trade cav that are just wailing on them. 12 attacks versus 40ish basically always favors cav.

I'd also note the fellow above you got a much worse result by cycle charging, which requires the AI to stop attacking and retreat. If the Chaos Knights just stick to a chariot and attack they're hugely favored mathematically.

Edit: Ran the Fimir test and when price matched if the Fimir (dual weapon) just stay in melee they smoke the boar chariots. Seems likely to be an AI issue. Chariots started in a blob, didn't get much damage before one routed.