​Dear CA, 

First of all, sorry for my English.

 I think a great job has been done to improve the nurgle faction, and you can see a big change from its launch until now, so thank you very much for that work.

That said, I think that Nurgle's demons need a little push, so that the great father Nurgle is proud of all his children. Here I leave some ideas that would improve the feeling of playing with Nurgle demons:

The cloud of flies skill takes too long to apply and you only have to leave combat to have to reload the skill. It should take 5s to charge or it should be something progressive like the great change of the black carriage of the vampire counts, it could be recharged while being close to units with debuff. I would reduce from +9 defense to +5 defense and add the ability to reflect damage +5 or +10. (This would make you feel like you are fighting the disease that jumps out of your skin with every blow) It would also give them +5% damage resistance or +0.05% healing in close combat. Since Nurgle's demons would have to be more resistant.

​On a general level they would also have to have immunity to poison (it doesn't make much sense that the most pestilent and poisonous demons would be affected by poison)

Unit by unit: 

Nurglings : They are very expensive for what they provide, for this price I would increase from 60 to 80 even 100 entities or lower the price to 250-275. (They are not a horde of Nurglings, but rather a small gathering of friends).

The frolickers bubonic(Nurglings): Te same of Nurglings more Entities or price reducción, and ad "Claud of flies".

Plaguebearers of nurgle: Balanced.

Exalted Plaguebearers of nurgle: +5 Armor.

Festering Stooges (Exalted Plaguebearers of nurgle): +5 Armor -50 Gold.

Chaos furies Nurgle: +10hp for Entity (Equal to the barrier of Tzeentch furies).

Plague Toads of Nurgle: - 50 Gold.

Beast of Nurgle: + 500HP + Causes terror "Slime trail"  Effect range +20m. "Poison attacks" replaced by "Cloud of erosion" (New roll for the beast of nurgle, as a destroyer of ammunition and a cheap source of terror).

Rot Flies: -50 Gold.

Pox Riders of Nurgle: -50 Gold + 4 Charge Bonus. 

Spawn of Nurgle: + 9Hp for Entity (Equal to the barrier of Tzeentch Spawn).

Plague Drones of Nurgle: Balanced.

Barons of the bog (Pox Riders of Nurgle): Balanced.

Great Unclean One: +10 armor, 3 uses of Stream of corruption. "Miasma of pestilence" replaced by "Fleshy abundance" or " Rancid Visitations".

Uncle Foruncle (Great Unclean One): +10 armor, 3 uses of Stream of corruption, 3 uses of Spirit Leech.

Plague Drones of Nurgle (Death´s Heads): -100 Gold.

The Angels of decay (Plague Drones of Nurgle-Death´s Heads): Balanced.

Soul Grinder of Nurgle: Balanced. 

Noxbringer (Soul Grinder of Nurgle): Balanced.

Lords and heroes:

Herald of Nurgle (Lore of nurgle or death): +10 armor + 10 Leadership.( the same of Exalted Plaguebearers), + One item to equip.

-On Nurglign planquin: +10 Leadership + One item to equip.

-On Rot Fly: -100 gold +200HP + 10 armor +4 charge bonus  (same of normal rot flies) +10 Leadership +One item to equip.

 Daemon Prince of Nurgle: +10 armor, 3 uses of Stream of corruption add "Arcane Conduit".

Exalted Great Unclean One(Lore of nurgle or death): - 200 gold +10 armor + 4 speed +One item to equip.  

Kugaht Plague Father: "Virulent contagion" 200 cost to 150 cost,  "Nurglingtide" 150 cost to 100 cost + his legendary item to equip 200 cost.

Epidemius: "Tally of pestilence" 200 cost to 150 cost, "Epidemic outburts" 150 cost to 100 cost, add "Pestilent decay" 200 cost or add "locus of fecundity" 150 cost + "blight Swarm" 100 cost.

And that`s all for Deamons of Nurgle, tell me in comments if you like and tell me if you want this type of analysis for other factions or warrios of chaos of Nurgle.

Thanks for reading.

First of all, you're English is great and I can understand everything you wrote.

In general I think that there are too many buffs to what is a pretty solid faction right now. While I do think the mark of nurgle is pretty weak, a change to the majority of units on the roster could make them too strong.

On the daemon side, I think the units that need the most attention are the GUO and the Beast of Nurgle. 

The GUO is just terrible and needs a radicle redesign. It has much worse stats than a giant or a terracotta sentinel and it is more expensive than both of them. Those units are niche as it is and the bound spells don't make up the difference.

Beast of Nurgle I would just give it terror. It's only 800 gold so it shouldn't be amazing. You could increase the aoe for slime trail as well.

Epidemius I would make him cheaper and apply his Tally of Pestilence ability to himself. That ability is the main reason you bring him and at the moment the effect does not apply to him.

Thanks Valnir, its my firts post :)

In general I think that Nurgle compared to other factions is a little weak, if the faction is more complete it is especially on the part of the mortal units even though it is the worst brand of the 4 gods of chaos. 

 I think the changes I suggest are small adjustments to units that are barely used or that are very difficult to make profitable in multiplayer battles. Have you ever managed to pay for a unit of nurglings? 

 Other changes that I suggest are simply to make the units equal to those of other chaos gods, such as the furies, which between barrier and life are weaker than those of tzeentch. 

 Don't you think the Fly Cloud faction skill needs a refresher? Compare it to the high elves, dark elves, ratmen, lizardmen, it feels much worse than all those factions from TWW2. 

 I challenge all to do a simple test to see if these changes are really deserved, try to win in multiplayer only using demon units with Nurgle, I think it is possible to win but it is quite a challenge, (it also depends a lot on the level of the player you play against ) 

 Thank you very much for giving your opinion and reading all the information. 

 Support the post so CA can make some of these changes. 

 Thanks again!

Nurglings aren't great and I tend to avoid using them. Although I think the frolickers are very good and I often see them pay for themselves. I personally would redesign them to make them more of chaff units like skavenslaves and peasants. Reduce their stats and costs and give them expendable.

The extra health you get from the mark of nurgle is worse than tzeentch's barrier for sure. I think the mortal units in particular feel this, with warriors of nurgle being the worst of the marked warrior units. I think you could give them more health and give the warrior great weapons more weapon strength and charge bonus.

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Valnir19#9931 wrote:

Nurglings aren't great and I tend to avoid using them. Although I think the frolickers are very good and I often see them pay for themselves. I personally would redesign them to make them more of chaff units like skavenslaves and peasants. Reduce their stats and costs and give them expendable.

The extra health you get from the mark of nurgle is worse than tzeentch's barrier for sure. I think the mortal units in particular feel this, with warriors of nurgle being the worst of the marked warrior units. I think you could give them more health and give the warrior great weapons more weapon strength and charge bonus.

​I completely agree, I would like the nurglings to be much cheaper with worse statistics but with more life to use as a meat shield and bring more numbers to the battlefield. 

 And yes, the mark of nurgle also needs more love, I may dedicate another post specifically to that. 

 Thank you very much for the support

The mileage for the faction is pretty different between dom and land battle from what I've understood. They are arguably the weakest faction in land battle at the moment, their strong strats are wide vanguard rush and mortis blob they just aren't a good rush faction. If the enemy has half decent peel assets and missile units they are just kind of helpless as the aforementioned strats will not work.

I personally think that their mark is the weakest out of all monogod units. MD and extra health is good to have, but they pay premium for reduced MA, which is really bad for a rush faction without backline to defend. And having to pay for poison on every unit is bad because you don't get marginal benefit from other unit applying the same contact effect. I'd want the MA minus gone, it doesn't relate to anything in tabletop either. Mark of nurgle made the units harder to hit, but didn't come with a malus like being forced to charge every time possibly like frenzy did for mark of khorne.

I think there are couple of reasonably suggestions like price reductions on rot flies and toads and beast of nurgle getting terror. But I think the roster as a whole suffers from paying for the wrong things and lacking some fundamental tools. I don't like how nurgle and slaanesh don't get halberd warriors, they wouldn't necessarily see much play, but their existence ensures that the opponent is at least theoretically in danger of getting his big single entity stuck in AP anti-large infantry. Their lacking missile pressure tools are also a large issue. If the soul grinder could rout three archer units in a fairly reasonable timeframe, I think it would have the most impact on how you would have to play against the faction since you would be forced to invest in counterartillery or rush against nurgle.

I totally agree that nurgle is one of the worst factions in Land battles and that the mark of nurgle is the worst.

 I think it's a very good idea that the mark of Nurgle does not apply -5MA and add the chaos warriors with halberds.

 I also think that even though Nurgle's mark is the worst, marked units are better than demons, which is why they are used a lot more in ground battles. I usually use 70-80% mortal units and only 30-20% demons (with exceptions against certain very specific factions).

 I think these changes would make the demons more used without making them OP, although I would also like to see Nurgle's marks rewroked.
Please support this forum to give more visibility, Father Nurgle thanks you. 

 Thank you very much for your opinion, there are very good ideas in your comment.​

The problem for Nurgle here has always been that his daemons are really only tanky when fighting in melee against low- to mid tier troops. But at the same time they completely fold against missile fire and magic which are, surprise surprise, completely overtuned in this game and two of the most important tools an army can have. That their killiness is also very low is just icing on the cake. It's like CA deliberately designed them to be as terrible as possible. When I see Nurgle armies in MP, they consist almost entirely of mortal units and that's a damn shame.

One, daemonic instability needs a complete rework. It can't be that daemons have an additional lose condition that is in no way balanced out by a perk of equal strength. Two, Nurgle daemons must be much more resistant to missile fire. Cloud of Flies on the TT is a flat reduction to missile fire hit chance in many editions and games, yet this aspect is completely absent here. Three, some sort of adaption of the disease mechanic in AoS would be nice to help with killiness. There units that fight against Nurgle accumulate disease markers just for being near them and those increase the average damage Nurgle units do against them.

Very interesting ideas shared by mirmidon007#7563! I agree Nurgle would be much more fun to play with these proposals... yessss yesss!!! :)

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TainBoCuailinge#8335 wrote:

The problem for Nurgle here has always been that his daemons are really only tanky when fighting in melee against low- to mid tier troops. But at the same time they completely fold against missile fire and magic which are, surprise surprise, completely overtuned in this game and two of the most important tools an army can have. That their killiness is also very low is just icing on the cake. It's like CA deliberately designed them to be as terrible as possible. When I see Nurgle armies in MP, they consist almost entirely of mortal units and that's a damn shame.

One, daemonic instability needs a complete rework. It can't be that daemons have an additional lose condition that is in no way balanced out by a perk of equal strength. Two, Nurgle daemons must be much more resistant to missile fire. Cloud of Flies on the TT is a flat reduction to missile fire hit chance in many editions and games, yet this aspect is completely absent here. Three, some sort of adaption of the disease mechanic in AoS would be nice to help with killiness. There units that fight against Nurgle accumulate disease markers just for being near them and those increase the average damage Nurgle units do against them.

Totally agree, i hope if CA make this changes it helps to make deamons better and more playable.

plz suport de post for more visibility and thanks for interact 

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TonyShelby#2146 wrote:

Very interesting ideas shared by mirmidon007#7563! I agree Nurgle would be much more fun to play with these proposals... yessss yesss!!! :)

​I hope CA also disagrees with these changes 

 Thanks for the comment, ma fren

There is also the fact that poison was an offensive buff in tabletop, whereas the way it is implemented in Total War is defensive. In tabletop I believe if you rolled 6 on to hit it meant that you didn't have to roll strength vs toughness to wound. So effectively you were just likelier to deal damage. Current implementation of poison isn't bad if you need to slow something down with skirmishers or fight something with large WS in absolute terms, but taking like 4 less damage per hit from infantry isn't terribly impactful. More units having different contact effects would mean less overlapping so you'd at least get something for what you pay for.

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bohrain#4784 wrote:

There is also the fact that poison was an offensive buff in tabletop, whereas the way it is implemented in Total War is defensive. In tabletop I believe if you rolled 6 on to hit it meant that you didn't have to roll strength vs toughness to wound. So effectively you were just likelier to deal damage. Current implementation of poison isn't bad if you need to slow something down with skirmishers or fight something with large WS in absolute terms, but taking like 4 less damage per hit from infantry isn't terribly impactful. More units having different contact effects would mean less overlapping so you'd at least get something for what you pay for.

Yess, thats why i hope CA ads +5 or +10 reflect damage, its like an ofensive buff, and think it feels like when you fight demons Of Nurgle you feel the poison and the illness, and i like to see a diferen poisons for diferente rols like you said.

Do you have any idea to rework the poison, or add something to feel more like tabletop?

Justice for Epidemius!

If you want, you can upvote that bug report so that CA finally notices the issue. That bug is pretty annoying, and it has been hanging there for over half a year now. (I know, rookie numbers, compared to some of the bugs that were waiting to be fixed for years in the past. Still...)

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Gurom_KillingMachine#8867 wrote:

Justice for Epidemius!

If you want, you can upvote that bug report so that CA finally notices the issue. That bug is pretty annoying, and it has been hanging there for over half a year now. (I know, rookie numbers, compared to some of the bugs that were waiting to be fixed for years in the past. Still...)

Voted :) plz vote this post for more suport 

i like the efect Of cloud or erosión, because reduce armor and destroy amunition, and that is really usefull in this for Nurgle factions 

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mirmidon007#7563 wrote:

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bohrain#4784 wrote:

There is also the fact that poison was an offensive buff in tabletop, whereas the way it is implemented in Total War is defensive. In tabletop I believe if you rolled 6 on to hit it meant that you didn't have to roll strength vs toughness to wound. So effectively you were just likelier to deal damage. Current implementation of poison isn't bad if you need to slow something down with skirmishers or fight something with large WS in absolute terms, but taking like 4 less damage per hit from infantry isn't terribly impactful. More units having different contact effects would mean less overlapping so you'd at least get something for what you pay for.

Yess, thats why i hope CA ads +5 or +10 reflect damage, its like an ofensive buff, and think it feels like when you fight demons Of Nurgle you feel the poison and the illness, and i like to see a diferen poisons for diferente rols like you said.

Do you have any idea to rework the poison, or add something to feel more like tabletop?

The thing with both poison and damage reflect is that they are both effects that are less useful the more MD you have, which the nurgle mark also gives. Damage reflect only triggers if the attack goes through MD and similar thing with the damage reduction that comes with poison.

yes, thats why i only apply refect damage to the demon Unites,  for the mortal ones i think just need more HP and Dont loose - 5AM that fix the mark or Nurgle 

And here are two clear examples of why nurglings need a big change, more units, HP and stalk or a good reduction in their price.

Goblins(Pirce 300) vs Nurglings (Pirce 350): Nurglings whit better stats loose vs goblins why?  Because there are 60 entities against 160 and they have worse stats

Clan Rats (Pirce 300) vs Nurglings (Pirce 350): Same exaple

Please CA keep an eye on the nurglings for the next update.