Lol

They don't have to, but it's not that easy either.

An existing IP, especially one like WH already has a well established fan base and even more so with WH - one that wants to play a war game in that setting. So it's got a built in fanbase to sell the game to. This helps a lot, there's a reason why WHF has been a huge success for CA.

Second is an existing IP has already built lore, WHF does that a step further as it also being a war game has existing units for CA to copy for their game already. It greatly reduces the cost of writing and design for CA.

Stellaris has an advantage there in that it doesn't need most of this. The visuals really aren't a big part and it's a sandbox that will randomly create the new content. TW doesn't work that way.

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Romavatandasi#3687 wrote:
As we see in the last dlc, toy company did not want repeater rifles so CA removed them. I dont think CA have to pay toy company to make fantasy games.
I buy Warhammer 3 because of Chinese fantasy and the best parts of the game is common folklore elements such as ogles, dragons and trolls, not at all because it is warhammer, CA should write their own lore, own fantasy instead of paying to toy company or to disney or whatever. 
Then they can make things as they want limitlessly and without paying to toy company/disney.

They definitely should strongly consider this path. I believe that it's something that has been discussed but I don't think that it's on any kind of horizon. They would probably need a lot more creative talent to be brought in, or they would need to tap into the resources of Sega in order to build a world and its lore. I personally think that they need more experience in storytelling and an updated gameplay loop. 

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Commisar#2307 wrote:

They don't have to, but it's not that easy either.

An existing IP, especially one like WH already has a well established fan base and even more so with WH - one that wants to play a war game in that setting. So it's got a built in fanbase to sell the game to. This helps a lot, there's a reason why WHF has been a huge success for CA.

Second is an existing IP has already built lore, WHF does that a step further as it also being a war game has existing units for CA to copy for their game already. It greatly reduces the cost of writing and design for CA.

Stellaris has an advantage there in that it doesn't need most of this. The visuals really aren't a big part and it's a sandbox that will randomly create the new content. TW doesn't work that way.

This is quite true, but those same IPs bring along with them certain restrictions and expectations. You are going to get a lot of " X can't beat Y in a fight! If you read issue number (--) during the (insert name here) written by (insert name here) during the events leading up to (you get the idea by now) it clearly states (no it doesn't) that it's impossible to transmute the essence of..." to go along with it. Either direction has its benefits and potential risks. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

This is quite true, but those same IPs bring along with them certain restrictions and expectations. You are going to get a lot of " X can't beat Y in a fight! If you read issue number (--) during the (insert name here) written by (insert name here) during the events leading up to (you get the idea by now) it clearly states (no it doesn't) that it's impossible to transmute the essence of..." to go along with it. Either direction has its benefits and potential risks. 

Only if they go with a comic series, with full fantasy worlds like we've seen with WH, they don't run that issue. Yes there's limits with the IP, but that's also useful as they can't even manage to fit in all the content that already exists within the world so the limits aren't really a problem. Plus all long term IPs end up with issues like that even within their own productions so again not a real issue and is something they run the risk of with their own world.

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Romavatandasi#3687 wrote:
As we see in the last dlc, toy company did not want repeater rifles so CA removed them. I dont think CA have to pay toy company to make fantasy games.
I buy Warhammer 3 because of Chinese fantasy and the best parts of the game is common folklore elements such as ogles, dragons and trolls, not at all because it is warhammer, CA should write their own lore, own fantasy instead of paying to toy company or to disney or whatever. 
Then they can make things as they want limitlessly and without paying to toy company/disney.

I totally agree with this.  The Warhammer lore is not so great anyway.  I recommended a DND world but they don't have to use one.  Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson created a game from existing lore and fantasy they did not create goblins, wizards, giants or Dragons.  TW can do the same.   It's not that hard either.  Thousands of DMs create worlds of fantasy lore everyday.     

Let’s not forget that WH lore has a deep well to draw from, as well as an emotional connection for many people. Making one up doesn’t benefit from years of lord and that emotive connection taken from 40 years of content, that even builds on much older lore and narratives.

Creating something new has a higher risk and it’s something I doubt they’ll do.

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redburd#8719 wrote:

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Romavatandasi#3687 wrote:
As we see in the last dlc, toy company did not want repeater rifles so CA removed them. I dont think CA have to pay toy company to make fantasy games.
I buy Warhammer 3 because of Chinese fantasy and the best parts of the game is common folklore elements such as ogles, dragons and trolls, not at all because it is warhammer, CA should write their own lore, own fantasy instead of paying to toy company or to disney or whatever. 
Then they can make things as they want limitlessly and without paying to toy company/disney.

I totally agree with this.  The Warhammer lore is not so great anyway.  I recommended a DND world but they don't have to use one.  Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson created a game from existing lore and fantasy they did not create goblins, wizards, giants or Dragons.  TW can do the same.   It's not that hard either.  Thousands of DMs create worlds of fantasy lore everyday.     

If TWWH was called something else entirely I would still be playing the game. I'm not here for Warhammer. I'm here because no one else is delivering this type of experience in the entire gaming industry. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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They've already been running into exactly that, in this trilogy. Partly because of the lore, but also because of what typically happens on the TT. It is -- and has been -- an issue within the community when comparing the strength of characters and races. 

I personally believe that CA has built up enough cache and knowledge of how a fantasy world works, that it's something that they should put on their horizon. I think that addressing the gameplay loop and battle tendencies of the A.I. are far important to the success of a future release than its setting or backstory. 

And yet has still been hugely successful so not really been an issue for the majority and the sales of the game. It's also in general an issue with fans of any faction/character so would still happen even if they make their own world and can happen even more so with it being so early on trying to build it all up together.

From the titles they've released lately the community says otherwise. They made multiple games with great mechanics but the setting or handling of the post release content hasn't appealed and the sales have fallen off. The visual appeal of the setting is huge and as is being repeatedly shown within TW and the gaming market, just making a game does not mean sales.

Funzo#7954 wrote:

If TWWH was called something else entirely I would still be playing the game. I'm not here for Warhammer. I'm here because no one else is delivering this type of experience in the entire gaming industry. 

And how many of the other TW games are you playing?

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Commisar#2307 wrote:

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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They've already been running into exactly that, in this trilogy. Partly because of the lore, but also because of what typically happens on the TT. It is -- and has been -- an issue within the community when comparing the strength of characters and races. 

I personally believe that CA has built up enough cache and knowledge of how a fantasy world works, that it's something that they should put on their horizon. I think that addressing the gameplay loop and battle tendencies of the A.I. are far important to the success of a future release than its setting or backstory. 

And yet has still been hugely successful so not really been an issue for the majority and the sales of the game. It's also in general an issue with fans of any faction/character so would still happen even if they make their own world and can happen even more so with it being so early on trying to build it all up together.

From the titles they've released lately the community says otherwise. They made multiple games with great mechanics but the setting or handling of the post release content hasn't appealed and the sales have fallen off. The visual appeal of the setting is huge and as is being repeatedly shown within TW and the gaming market, just making a game does not mean sales.

Funzo#7954 wrote:

If TWWH was called something else entirely I would still be playing the game. I'm not here for Warhammer. I'm here because no one else is delivering this type of experience in the entire gaming industry. 

And how many of the other TW games are you playing?

You're moving the goalpost now. 

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Let’s not forget that WH lore has a deep well to draw from, as well as an emotional connection for many people. Making one up doesn’t benefit from years of lord and that emotive connection taken from 40 years of content, that even builds on much older lore and narratives.

Creating something new has a higher risk and it’s something I doubt they’ll do.

They have an actual huge and varied reservoir of content sitting in the library of Sega. Even if Warhammer is to be considered as deep, surely the multitude of titles spanning Sega's history would dwarf (hehe) the single source of content present in Warhammer. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Let’s not forget that WH lore has a deep well to draw from, as well as an emotional connection for many people. Making one up doesn’t benefit from years of lord and that emotive connection taken from 40 years of content, that even builds on much older lore and narratives.

Creating something new has a higher risk and it’s something I doubt they’ll do.

They have an actual huge and varied reservoir of content sitting in the library of Sega. Even if Warhammer is to be considered as deep, surely the multitude of titles spanning Sega's history would dwarf (hehe) the single source of content present in Warhammer. 

Like what? There’s no world building via Sega that comes close to Warhammer.

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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davedave1124#4773 wrote:

Let’s not forget that WH lore has a deep well to draw from, as well as an emotional connection for many people. Making one up doesn’t benefit from years of lord and that emotive connection taken from 40 years of content, that even builds on much older lore and narratives.

Creating something new has a higher risk and it’s something I doubt they’ll do.

They have an actual huge and varied reservoir of content sitting in the library of Sega. Even if Warhammer is to be considered as deep, surely the multitude of titles spanning Sega's history would dwarf (hehe) the single source of content present in Warhammer. 

Like what? There’s no world building via Sega that comes close to Warhammer.

It doesn't need to be as expansive as Warhammer. Warhammer fantasy a singular location. It all takes place in one place and mostly during one time period. Not only can that be outdone by a new IP that simply doesn't repeat that scenario, it can easily place players in worlds that they haven't visited in years through Sega's catalog of games. That's not even factoring in cameos from a variety of franchises. 

Talk with Raymond E. Feist, CA. (crydee . com)

A riftwar saga Total War, continuing in the ultimate chaoswar would be fantastic. 

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Funzo#7954 wrote:

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You're moving the goalpost now. 

No I'm not. you claim it's an issue for established IPs yet WHF has been hugely successful for TW even with it. So clearly not that much of an issue.

When you claim the setting doesn't matter, but gameplay, then you should be playing the other TW titles as they do have great gameplay.

Funzo#7954 wrote:

It doesn't need to be as expansive as Warhammer. Warhammer fantasy a singular location. It all takes place in one place and mostly during one time period. Not only can that be outdone by a new IP that simply doesn't repeat that scenario, it can easily place players in worlds that they haven't visited in years through Sega's catalog of games. That's not even factoring in cameos from a variety of franchises. 

Such as?

I never played Warhammer (so I can't speak to that) but used to play TW medieval war and Rome.  Now that CA added so much magic and other aspects/complexity to the battles I can't go back to those historic titles.   

I have played untold hours of TW historic and TW Warhammer 2 and 3.  So yes I agree WH was great fit.  And many of the lines I see in game that come from WH lore do seem great.   But now the map is stale.  The same Warhammer themes of lords that want to eat everyone whether it is Paunch, Throt, all the ogres etc. is a bit played out.  I don't really care for the demon factions of warhammer at all.       There seem to be very few human or human adjacent races such as vampires, elves, etc left.  I look forward to dogs of war but couldn't care less about another demon update.    And I doubt I'm alone.  Even in 2024 even though WH3 incorporated more demon stuff then any other year human campaigns of Franz and Elspeth were the top picks. 

They seem to have the mechanics and coding to take this show on the road to other maps and worlds.     It is time!  

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redburd#8719 wrote:

I never played Warhammer (so I can't speak to that) but used to play TW medieval war and Rome.  Now that CA added so much magic and other aspects/complexity to the battles I can't go back to those historic titles.   

I have played untold hours of TW historic and TW Warhammer 2 and 3.  So yes I agree WH was great fit.  And many of the lines I see in game that come from WH lore do seem great.   But now the map is stale.  The same Warhammer themes of lords that want to eat everyone whether it is Paunch, Throt, all the ogres etc. is a bit played out.  I don't really care for the demon factions of warhammer at all.       There seem to be very few human or human adjacent races such as vampires, elves, etc left.  I look forward to dogs of war but couldn't care less about another demon update.    And I doubt I'm alone.  Even in 2024 even though WH3 incorporated more demon stuff then any other year human campaigns of Franz and Elspeth were the top picks. 

They seem to have the mechanics and coding to take this show on the road to other maps and worlds.     It is time!  

Exactly this. A lot of talk about the difficulty of returning to historical games started back in Warhammer II. Not III, Warhammer II. 

When you aren't restricted by the source material, you can just make a new location like in a Black Desert Online. You can also just create an entirely different race or do a meta shift and rebalance the game in order to give it a bit of a refresh.