I was originally going to title the thread something like "Why melee is important in an Empire 2", but I got to thinking and I realized that that topic kind of intertwines with many of the potential playable non European factions that could probably make it into a full Empire 2.

​Now, I'm in no way saying that melee units should be be able to walk through a storm of musket and artillery fire unscathed, but I really feel like melee combat should still be viable beyond just cavalry the occasional hail mary bayonet charge and such. Because I know that an Empire 2 should absolutely have a heavy focus on firearms and all, I do know that it should be about using such units effectively rather than the devs purposefully hamstringing them from the start.

But I'm going to say something that might ruffle some people's feathers, but I feel like it really needs to be said.

And that is that non European factions should absolutely NOT be purposefully made into weak punching bag factions for the European ones ones to beat up on, as that would objectively waste so much of an Empire 2's potential replay value and all, which would only hurt the game in the long run.

Potential playable factions should absolutely be able to at least grow enough to stand up the European factions, be it through advancement of their weapon technology or the use of tactical options and potential campaign buffs from their tech trees, but without just becoming inferior carbon copies of the European factions.

Now, I don't want this OP to get super overly long, as we can get into the details in the comments, so I'll just say a few simple ways in which some key factions in different.

The Scottish Exception

I will say that while being a European faction, I think that Scotland's could feel fairly unique with the addition of their highland units and probably easier access to any Irish units as well. But they should be more useful than just a hail mary banzai charge, as they could be helped via buffs and such they could get from Scotland's offshoot tech tree, which is something I'll get into in the comments.

Though I will say that the buffs they could potentially get from the offshoot tech tree could be things like giving the Scottish Highlander units the Guerilla Deployment trait, as well as maybe giving their Irish counterparts the Stalk trait, to help them be more sneaky and all.

But I'm not saying that Scotland should only have access to the highland and the Irish units, but that is something that could help them feel far more unique than just having limited access to other things like line infantry and artillery, which wouldn't hurt but such units could add some real unique flavor to Scotland instead of them just being a punching bag for the British or just automatically part of their faction right from the start.

Far Eastern Factions

Factions like the Qing Dynasty and Mughal Empire shouldn't automatically be weakened by tons of internal problems to where their late game is simply trying to survive the European factions attempts to take their lands and all. They should absolutely be able to build themselves up to at least be able to have proper artillery duels with European factions, which would absolutely open up the window to using other strengths of their armies.

Now, I don't know too much about the armies of the various southeast Asian kingdoms/nations like the Kingdom of Siam and such, in lands that are now Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam and the rest of Southeast Asia, but I'm sure that CA could do a bit of research and manage to not only make them historically accurate, but also fun and interesting to play.

Native American Factions

I will say that I'd really like to see the various Native American tribes and and tribal groups be far more varied than mostly just "generic Native American" rush armies like they were back in Empire 1, even if they have a heavy focus on light infantry and cavalry, with a few exceptions.

Now, I won't try to go over every possible thing they could for each playable Native American sub faction, but I do know that they could all share a single mechanic, and that would be what I will call "Foreign Weapons" or something that is a resource mechanic where you can build up stockpiles of European firearms and even limited artillery from a number of different way, such as trade with various European factions or sacking and looting their forts and settlements.

But I really think that such a mechanic could lead to a further upgrading system for your more elite warriors at least, in that you can maybe recruit your more elite warrior units as different variants, similar to these Chaos Warrior Variants, but instead of marks of chaos, it's just called Unit Variants or just Variants. 

But the idea is that instead of only having the single Warrior Society unit as your elite infantry, now you can can choose to upgrade them in different ways, which could somewhat vary between some major tribal groups and all.

And just as a side note, I will say, that while I know that not all native warriors were known to use shields, I think that for the sake of giving such units a a bit of an edge in battle over stuff like European style line infantry, I think it'd be fair for most native melee infantry units to have smaller buckler like shields, kind of like these Small Shields from Pharaoh Dynasties, but maybe more wooden looking and minus the zebra and such patterns, but with one or two exceptions from certain tribal groups.

I also think the whole "Foreign Weapons" resources and mechanic could present an interesting challenge for artillery, as I think it'd be truly great if you could choose to make a fairly limited number of units of either light or heavy cannons, or possibly equip forts with them and things like that.

Other Factions​

Now I won't lie, I don't know all that much about the various possibly factions and such that could be in places like Africa or most of South America, especially not those that were around in 1684. Because the only iconic factions I can think of that come from Africa are the Mali Empire (or its remnants), the Zulus, and the Kingdom of Ethiopia, but that's it, and the Zulu Kingdom didn't really get started until like 1810 or so, which wouldn't really work with a starting date of 1684.

If anyone can come up with examples of possible factions from places like Africa or South America (aside from Ethiopia of course) that could work as playable factions in an Empire 2 that were around during 1684 onward, I'd be most appreciative.

But what do you guys think? 

What do you guys think CA could possibly do to make the non European factions in an Empire 2 fun to play without being overly weak and all?

I just wanted to talk about a little bit of extra stuff and present some references for what I'm talking about.

One of the things I wanted to try to talk about is what needs to be done with the Native American tribes and their units as whole. For while I thought that the different Native American factions having different variants of the shared units, at least from a unit model perspective, I really, really, REALLY don't want to see that sort of thing be done again, at least not beyond maybe a few shared units in the larger tribal groups.

Like I just said, I wouldn't mind a few generally shared units, such as your more standard "Tribal Warriors" and "Tribal Archers", maybe based on different major regional or tribal groups, but I would still say that CA could do better that if they're allowed to. 

I mean, there's so many famous tribal groups, like the Haudenosaunee/Iroquois Confederacy, the Comanche, the Apache, the Seminoles down in Florida, and even the Tlingit in parts of Alaska and Canada, along with others I'm sure, and I think that they deserve to get more than just some reskins of the same handful of units

Personally, I think that what CA could possibly do is to mix what they did in Pharaoh Dynasties with Warhammer 3's unit roster layout. Think a roster layout like in this screenshot Wh3 Army Roster but with the different tribal groups' names and their related units under their sub category.

But I think that that would not only help the Native American tribes feel like a full faction in custom and multiplayer battles, but I think that having regional units be able to be unlocked and all in the campaign could help make their armies feel a lot more varied than just reskins of the same handful of units.

On a side note, I will say that I'd really love to see the Tlingit armored warriors make an appearance in an, though I would really like to see them be done justice.

Just google Tlingit Armored Warriors to see what I'm talking about.

I would personally like to see the Tlingit have a basic irregular warrior unit that might have some more armor than most other tribal units, but not by leaps and bounds. Then their more full time warriors have even more armor, but maybe lack those cool helmets that their elite warriors were known to wear, as well as them maybe making use of iron axes and spears. But their elite warriors have an even higher armor rating and also sport those cool helmets, as well as them wielding iron spears and short swords along with fairly large decorated shields or 2h hardwood clubs or 2h iron axes.

But if only their elite warriors are heavily armored and had a few variants, I'd probably be happy enough with that.

I would like to see the elite Tlingit warriors use short swords like this Short Sword and carry shields like these, Shields 1, Shields 2, or Shields 3, which could help them really feel like tanky native heavy infantry. 

I particular like shield 1 and 2, but 3 could work as well.